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Brexit

Postby Oldschool » November 16th, 2018, 10:39 am

Starting to look like a 'bit' of a mess.
The Tories are in meltdown.
The public seem to be moving towards wanting another referendum and likely to vote to stay in the EU if one is held which is without doubt the best situation for our Republic.
The worst possible consequence from what is happening in the UK at the moment is for Jeremy Corbyn to become the Prime Minister of the UK.
Corbyn is a hidden/unknown entity.
I don't like/trust him for that reason alone.
What his approach to the 'draft brexit' is an unknown.
He will use it for political advantage rather than doing the right thing for the nation.
Brexit is not the right thing for Ireland but,
What is the right thing for the people of the UK though?
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Re: Brexit

Postby domhnallj » November 16th, 2018, 2:34 pm

Oldschool wrote:Starting to look like a 'bit' of a mess.
The Tories are in meltdown.
The public seem to be moving towards wanting another referendum and likely to vote to stay in the EU if one is held which is without doubt the best situation for our Republic.
The worst possible consequence from what is happening in the UK at the moment is for Jeremy Corbyn to become the Prime Minister of the UK.
Corbyn is a hidden/unknown entity.
I don't like/trust him for that reason alone.
What his approach to the 'draft brexit' is an unknown.
He will use it for political advantage rather than doing the right thing for the nation.
Brexit is not the right thing for Ireland but,
What is the right thing for the people of the UK though?


No brexit.

As for all else you've written - Corbyn is not the worst option compared to this shambolic Tory party. Labour members have voted and have an agreed direction - https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/.

I can't wait for the tories to be booted out.
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Re: Brexit

Postby FLIP » November 16th, 2018, 4:05 pm

domhnallj wrote:
Oldschool wrote:Starting to look like a 'bit' of a mess.
The Tories are in meltdown.
The public seem to be moving towards wanting another referendum and likely to vote to stay in the EU if one is held which is without doubt the best situation for our Republic.
The worst possible consequence from what is happening in the UK at the moment is for Jeremy Corbyn to become the Prime Minister of the UK.
Corbyn is a hidden/unknown entity.
I don't like/trust him for that reason alone.
What his approach to the 'draft brexit' is an unknown.
He will use it for political advantage rather than doing the right thing for the nation.
Brexit is not the right thing for Ireland but,
What is the right thing for the people of the UK though?


No brexit.

As for all else you've written - Corbyn is not the worst option compared to this shambolic Tory party. Labour members have voted and have an agreed direction - https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/.

I can't wait for the tories to be booted out.


Corbyn is no remainer. If he was he would have actually put some effort in during the Brexit campaign. Labour won't back out of Brexit, just change it.

And will that change be worth voting in an anti-Semitic party? Not at all.
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Re: Brexit

Postby domhnallj » November 16th, 2018, 4:13 pm

FLIP wrote:
Corbyn is no remainer. If he was he would have actually put some effort in during the Brexit campaign. Labour won't back out of Brexit, just change it.

And will that change be worth voting in an anti-Semitic party? Not at all.


I never said he was; however, he is tied by the vote of the party membership on the matter. There is a route to a second vote.

As regards the anti-semitism - whats that got to do with dealing with the shambles that is brexit - the tories are just as bad if not even worse on that score.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Hornet » November 16th, 2018, 4:56 pm

Corbyn voted against joining the EEC in 1975. I've not seen anything in those intervening years (as a Labour Party member), that he has shifted his view on the EEC/EC/EU. Maybe he should reconsider his position if it is at odds with the Labour Party Manifesto.
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Re: Brexit

Postby domhnallj » November 16th, 2018, 5:05 pm

Hornet wrote:Corbyn voted against joining the EEC in 1975. I've not seen anything in those intervening years (as a Labour Party member), that he has shifted his view on the EEC/EC/EU. Maybe he should reconsider his position if it is at odds with the Labour Party Manifesto.


Indeed, and I think you are correct about his stance on the EU.

Maybe he should but as I am not a member I have no say in that particular bunfight.

I never said I liked this situation or was a Corbyn supporter (or even that I voted for Labour!). I'd prefer parliament realise that brexit is a harmful mistake and bin it, but failing that I will take Labour and their route to a second referendum at this stage.
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Re: Brexit

Postby jimbobjoe » November 16th, 2018, 5:19 pm

domhnallj wrote:
Hornet wrote:Corbyn voted against joining the EEC in 1975. I've not seen anything in those intervening years (as a Labour Party member), that he has shifted his view on the EEC/EC/EU. Maybe he should reconsider his position if it is at odds with the Labour Party Manifesto.


Indeed, and I think you are correct about his stance on the EU.

Maybe he should but as I am not a member I have no say in that particular bunfight.

I never said I liked this situation or was a Corbyn supporter (or even that I voted for Labour!). I'd prefer parliament realise that brexit is a harmful mistake and bin it, but failing that I will take Labour and their route to a second referendum at this stage.


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Re: Brexit

Postby FLIP » November 16th, 2018, 5:55 pm

domhnallj wrote:As regards the anti-semitism - whats that got to do with dealing with the shambles that is brexit - the tories are just as bad if not even worse on that score.


Didn't know the police were investigating anti semitic crimes by Conservative party members: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229

I dislike Brexit, and voted remain, but if the price of remaining in the EU is voting in modern fascism that's a price not worth paying.
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Re: Brexit

Postby fourthirtythree » November 16th, 2018, 6:10 pm

The current Tories are far right racists engaged in a distinctly fascist project.

The projection that the far right are using on Labour (look over there, racists!) is laughable coming from a troupe that use xenophobia as their chief populist tool.

The Tory party are disgusting racists. Absolutely foul. And their xenophobic enabling press are a pox on the world.

On top of which they are utterly incompetent, venal, and corrupt.
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Re: Brexit

Postby FLIP » November 16th, 2018, 6:33 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:The current Tories are far right racists engaged in a distinctly fascist project.

The projection that the far right are using on Labour (look over there, racists!) is laughable coming from a troupe that use xenophobia as their chief populist tool.

The Tory party are disgusting racists. Absolutely foul. And their xenophobic enabling press are a pox on the world.

On top of which they are utterly incompetent, venal, and corrupt.


:lol: I wouldn't expect anything less from someone further left than Stalin.

There's only one party being investigated for hate crimes. Is the legal system xenophobic too?

Nice insinuation there that I'm far right too. The problem when you overuse that leftist dogwhistle is that it becomes meaningless when you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being it.
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Re: Brexit

Postby domhnallj » November 16th, 2018, 7:08 pm

FLIP wrote:
domhnallj wrote:As regards the anti-semitism - whats that got to do with dealing with the shambles that is brexit - the tories are just as bad if not even worse on that score.


Didn't know the police were investigating anti semitic crimes by Conservative party members: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229

I dislike Brexit, and voted remain, but if the price of remaining in the EU is voting in modern fascism that's a price not worth paying.


Suit yourself. But to be clear - the Labour party is not under criminal investigation and recent yougov polls show higher levels of antisemitic sentiment in tory supporters than labour (although both should hang their heads in shame).
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Re: Brexit

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 16th, 2018, 8:21 pm

The most fundamental analysis of what the United Kingdom, not British, people were asked to vote on needs to be reviewed.

The UK people now are faced with a consequence that the 52% could not have envisaged. The 48% said they did not want to leave membership of the EU.

The proposed Draft Agreement does not give the UK people the opportunity to leave the EU, but rather to remain in it under different cicumstances. Can anybody validly argue that 52% voted for that option?

The Tories have been totally duplicitous, except for Theresa May who appears to be an honest politician caught in the wrong century.

A No Deal exit will be a disaster for the UK. It will however be a total fiasco for the Republic of Ireland as we have neither the colonial network with whom we can negotiate trade deals, nor the volume of dubious international finance and financial services which may enable them to re-construct London as the new "Liechtenstein" of Europe for funny money.

Pray for "Saint Theresa".
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Re: Brexit

Postby Oldschool » November 16th, 2018, 9:08 pm

fourthirtythree wrote:The current Tories are far right racists engaged in a distinctly fascist project.

The projection that the far right are using on Labour (look over there, racists!) is laughable coming from a troupe that use xenophobia as their chief populist tool.

The Tory party are disgusting racists. Absolutely foul. And their xenophobic enabling press are a pox on the world.

On top of which they are utterly incompetent, venal, and corrupt.

Corbyn is a communist imho or extreme lefty.
That makes him every bit as unpalatable as the far right.
He is the main reason that the British people voted to leave. He went missing during the campaign and thereby left the British people to the tender mercies of the Tories.
Given his undoubted antipathy towards all things Tory, that tells you a lot about the man.
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Re: Brexit

Postby paddyor » November 17th, 2018, 12:27 am

I don’t think he’s a commie at all. The anti semitism charge is nonsense too. A lot of his policies are adapted from the continent. Have to say he’s played a blinder so far wrt brexit. He can’t effect any change so he’s letting the ERG tear the tories to pieces and demanding they deliver brexit. When they serve up the sh!t sambo it’s all on them.

I’m no lefty but it’s quite funny that people think him a bigger threat than the dopes eager to deliver another winter of discontent(while they complain that young people don’t remember the winter of discontent).
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Re: Brexit

Postby paddyor » November 17th, 2018, 12:30 am

Oldschool wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:The current Tories are far right racists engaged in a distinctly fascist project.

The projection that the far right are using on Labour (look over there, racists!) is laughable coming from a troupe that use xenophobia as their chief populist tool.

The Tory party are disgusting racists. Absolutely foul. And their xenophobic enabling press are a pox on the world.

On top of which they are utterly incompetent, venal, and corrupt.

Corbyn is a communist imho or extreme lefty.
That makes him every bit as unpalatable as the far right.
He is the main reason that the British people voted to leave. He went missing during the campaign and thereby left the British people to the tender mercies of the Tories.
Given his undoubted antipathy towards all things Tory, that tells you a lot about the man.
Not to be trusted even one iota

Not even a hint of self awareness. He’s not by a long shot the main reason the referendum was lost.it was predominantly tories that campaigned for it.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Brexit

Postby FLIP » November 17th, 2018, 3:57 am

paddyor wrote:The anti semitism charge is nonsense too.


Based on what evidence? He's shared platforms with people who called for death for all Jews, his backing campaign Momentum has a renowned reputation for anti semetism such that the labour party has been dodging anti semetism claims since he became leader.

To claim Corbyn and the labour party are not anti semetic at this point is to be nothing but ignorant.
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Re: Brexit

Postby FLIP » November 17th, 2018, 4:00 am

paddyor wrote:
Oldschool wrote:
fourthirtythree wrote:The current Tories are far right racists engaged in a distinctly fascist project.

The projection that the far right are using on Labour (look over there, racists!) is laughable coming from a troupe that use xenophobia as their chief populist tool.

The Tory party are disgusting racists. Absolutely foul. And their xenophobic enabling press are a pox on the world.

On top of which they are utterly incompetent, venal, and corrupt.

Corbyn is a communist imho or extreme lefty.
That makes him every bit as unpalatable as the far right.
He is the main reason that the British people voted to leave. He went missing during the campaign and thereby left the British people to the tender mercies of the Tories.
Given his undoubted antipathy towards all things Tory, that tells you a lot about the man.
Not to be trusted even one iota

Not even a hint of self awareness. He’s not by a long shot the main reason the referendum was lost.it was predominantly tories that campaigned for it.


Brexit happened not because those who were expected to vote for it did, but those who were expected to vote against it in the north didn't, because their leadership didn't work for their vote. Had labour had the vote in 1997 as their manifesto promised, none of this would have happened. Brexit was decades in the making.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Oldschool » November 17th, 2018, 10:15 am

paddyor wrote:I don’t think he’s a commie at all. The anti semitism charge is nonsense too. A lot of his policies are adapted from the continent. Have to say he’s played a blinder so far wrt brexit. He can’t effect any change so he’s letting the ERG tear the tories to pieces and demanding they deliver brexit. When they serve up the sh!t sambo it’s all on them.

I’m no lefty but it’s quite funny that people think him a bigger threat than the dopes eager to deliver another winter of discontent(while they complain that young people don’t remember the winter of discontent).

So dumping your citizens into the mire that is Brexit is playing a blinder, as in giving no leadership to his labour party supporters.
As for being a threat, it's likely he's going to be the next PM of the UK. One of the first things he will try to do is dump NI onto us.
If you think that's a good thing then I can see where you're coming from.
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Re: Brexit

Postby paddyor » November 17th, 2018, 11:55 am

This is art.

FLIP wrote:Nice insinuation there that I'm far right too. The problem when you overuse that leftist dogwhistle is that it becomes meaningless when you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being it.


FLIP wrote:
Based on what evidence? He's shared platforms with people who called for death for all Jews, his backing campaign Momentum has a renowned reputation for anti semetism such that the labour party has been dodging anti semetism claims since he became leader.

To claim Corbyn and the labour party are not anti semetic at this point is to be nothing but ignorant.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
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Re: Brexit

Postby paddyor » November 17th, 2018, 12:02 pm

Oldschool wrote:So dumping your citizens into the mire that is Brexit is playing a blinder, as in giving no leadership to his labour party supporters.
As for being a threat, it's likely he's going to be the next PM of the UK. One of the first things he will try to do is dump NI onto us.
If you think that's a good thing then I can see where you're coming from.

He's not dumping his citizens into the mire though. He didn't/hasn't
1)Called the referendum
2)Campaigned for Brexit
3)Pushed for the hardest possible Brexit

And as leader of the opposition he isn't really in a position to affect the final outcome. I mean there is an actual party dumping their citizens into the mire but no, the real threat is the guy who's the opposition to them. The line of argument is just bizarre.

FWIW, I kind of suspect that many of the hard brexit tories would happily dump off the North(irrespective of what they say) and some might even see this as a first step to getting rid of NI. They certainly don't care about it. I'm not enamoured by the idea of a UI, but if a large enough marjority voted yes in NI I think I would too.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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