MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby Sea_point » May 15th, 2008, 2:25 pm

CRAZYDAVE wrote:
Mustapha wrote:
A legend wrote:This is a simple case of Waterpark not being able to take a beating. Waterford is a big city, while Monivea is a tiny village with only 28 people who actually sleep in it. They didn't even know where Monivea was, they had no respect for us but we still hammered them.


This. This is briliant.


The "City Slickers" mentality... :lol: :lol:

Saw it in action when I played with Sligo RFC against Galway city clubs


Used to love it when we played the towns sides at underage, at least half a dozen of the lads in the XV like myself were proud culchies and even more were of Culchie parentage and from non rugby schools or a few from Leinster A Schools.

The oppo would be screaming in the warm up about how they're going to kick the bejaysus out of the the Jackeens and send them back to Dublin with their tails between their legs (I seem to remember at the time that Navan in particular seemed to have an issue with Dublin based teams). Then we'd go and put thirty or forty points on them, oh their faces as they trudged off the park...... :lol: :lol:

Basically it's the same old shoite you hear spouted about the D4 only Leinster team from certain quarters.... 8) :lol:
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby Openside » May 15th, 2008, 2:34 pm

Sea_point wrote:
groundhog wrote:By the way, Monivea's dishonesty affects a lot of clubs. For there starters there is my own club Cill Dara, the possible relegation play-off teams Ashbourne, Roscrea, Railway Union, Athy and in Connacht OLBC.

This is leaving a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths, what I fail to understand is why didn't Monivea just put their hands up before the Round-Robin, the IRFU requested all registered players before the series began therefore Monivea knew at that stage Gavin was not registered, that is the time to realise a clerical error has been made and to be honest and put your hand up and hopefully the IRFU will allow the player to be registered and if not so be it and have faith in your squad. Instead Monivea let the integrity of the game down, their own branch down but most importantly they let themselves down. Everyteam in that round-robin sweat blood and tears to be there, it's a lot easier for Monivea to bounce back than it will be for either Cashel or Cill Dara. No matter what the sport failure to register players is a serious offence, the integrity of the game comes above all else.


Groundhog, give it a fecking rest. Stop tarring a decent club like Monivea with all this shite, there are a lot of good people playing on various teams in the club who would have absolutely no knowledge of this course of events. This could come down to the decision of two or three individuals, not the whole fecking club. So get of you're high horse....


What Monivea appear to have done was wrong, very wrong. If they lose the appeal they deserve their punishment. However, if the players were aware of the registration issue there was little evidence of this fact from reading the media over the past month...read any of the match reports on the knockon.ie site or in the Galway media and you'll find Liam Mitchell and John Gavin listed as playing the relevant games so as I understand it, no great attempt was made to cover up their presence as suggested by some. The absence of John Gavin from the Connacht Junior Cup FInal was signalled in advance as was the possibility that both might be absent from the Waterpark game. These are not secrets. As a former Monivea player I'm sickened that the club has allowed this to happen and my heart goes out to the players all of whom have worked hard.

I'm also sickened by some of the sanctimonious comments I've read here over the past days. I played in Leinster for the past seven years and what goes on there, and in particular Metropolitan rugby, is little better. The difference is that Monivea got caught.
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby Sea_point » May 15th, 2008, 2:44 pm

Openside wrote:
Sea_point wrote:
groundhog wrote:By the way, Monivea's dishonesty affects a lot of clubs. For there starters there is my own club Cill Dara, the possible relegation play-off teams Ashbourne, Roscrea, Railway Union, Athy and in Connacht OLBC.

This is leaving a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths, what I fail to understand is why didn't Monivea just put their hands up before the Round-Robin, the IRFU requested all registered players before the series began therefore Monivea knew at that stage Gavin was not registered, that is the time to realise a clerical error has been made and to be honest and put your hand up and hopefully the IRFU will allow the player to be registered and if not so be it and have faith in your squad. Instead Monivea let the integrity of the game down, their own branch down but most importantly they let themselves down. Everyteam in that round-robin sweat blood and tears to be there, it's a lot easier for Monivea to bounce back than it will be for either Cashel or Cill Dara. No matter what the sport failure to register players is a serious offence, the integrity of the game comes above all else.


Groundhog, give it a fecking rest. Stop tarring a decent club like Monivea with all this shite, there are a lot of good people playing on various teams in the club who would have absolutely no knowledge of this course of events. This could come down to the decision of two or three individuals, not the whole fecking club. So get of you're high horse....


What Monivea appear to have done was wrong, very wrong. If they lose the appeal they deserve their punishment. However, if the players were aware of the registration issue there was little evidence of this fact from reading the media over the past month...read any of the match reports on the knockon.ie site or in the Galway media and you'll find Liam Mitchell and John Gavin listed as playing the relevant games so as I understand it, no great attempt was made to cover up their presence as suggested by some. The absence of John Gavin from the Connacht Junior Cup FInal was signalled in advance as was the possibility that both might be absent from the Waterpark game. These are not secrets. As a former Monivea player I'm sickened that the club has allowed this to happen and my heart goes out to the players all of whom have worked hard.

I'm also sickened by some of the sanctimonious comments I've read here over the past days. I played in Leinster for the past seven years and what goes on there, and in particular Metropolitan rugby, is little better. The difference is that Monivea got caught.


The loaded Terenure J4 side springs to mind (think there was discussion about them in another thread), virtually unbeatable by proper J4 teams because they are a team of mates who play several leagues below their abilities ... :roll:
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby panucci » May 15th, 2008, 6:09 pm

jimmy the bone wrote:Sea_point,
Don't be minding them Cill Dara fools. They're just sick as parrots because they have missed their chance to go senior. Now with the emergence of Newbridge across the Curragh they know their downfall is imminent :happy clapper: Oh and by the way one thing about the Curragh RFC there was nothing wrong with their facilities :roll:


'The emergence of Newbridge' I love it! :happy clapper: We can always depend on JTB to bring the humor on board.. :clap:
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby jimmy the bone » May 15th, 2008, 9:42 pm

"The faciltys of Cill Dara are truly first class and a credit to the efforts of the commitee of the club,but i also rember their facilitys been a lot worse,including a lot of junior clubs, Barnhall played out of the local meatpackers for years,but through the hard work of their commitees they have improved and set targets and standards for everyone else to follow.


maybe boyne could bring Shane Horgan back for a towns cup game, or Jackman for tullow, kearney for dundalk etc., because they played for those clubs when they where younger."

Firstly the only way the facilities in Cill Dara would be first class would be if you worked for Eirtricity and you wanted to set up a wind farm. Beechpark me arse where are all the Beech trees its coldest most exposed kip in Ireland. Plus the pavillion is classic example of how not to build a club house.

Secondly Berch never played rugby for Tullow he coached there for sure but never played there. He first picked up a rugby ball when he started in Newbridge College. :P
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby silly punt » May 16th, 2008, 8:33 am

jimmy the bone wrote:"The faciltys of Cill Dara are truly first class and a credit to the efforts of the commitee of the club,but i also rember their facilitys been a lot worse,including a lot of junior clubs, Barnhall played out of the local meatpackers for years,but through the hard work of their commitees they have improved and set targets and standards for everyone else to follow.


maybe boyne could bring Shane Horgan back for a towns cup game, or Jackman for tullow, kearney for dundalk etc., because they played for those clubs when they where younger."

Firstly the only way the facilities in Cill Dara would be first class would be if you worked for Eirtricity and you wanted to set up a wind farm. Beechpark me arse where are all the Beech trees its coldest most exposed kip in Ireland. Plus the pavillion is classic example of how not to build a club house.

Secondly Berch never played rugby for Tullow he coached there for sure but never played there. He first picked up a rugby ball when he started in Newbridge College. :P


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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby fursey » May 16th, 2008, 9:36 am

silly punt wrote:
jimmy the bone wrote:"The faciltys of Cill Dara are truly first class and a credit to the efforts of the commitee of the club,but i also rember their facilitys been a lot worse,including a lot of junior clubs, Barnhall played out of the local meatpackers for years,but through the hard work of their commitees they have improved and set targets and standards for everyone else to follow.


maybe boyne could bring Shane Horgan back for a towns cup game, or Jackman for tullow, kearney for dundalk etc., because they played for those clubs when they where younger."

Firstly the only way the facilities in Cill Dara would be first class would be if you worked for Eirtricity and you wanted to set up a wind farm. Beechpark me arse where are all the Beech trees its coldest most exposed kip in Ireland. Plus the pavillion is classic example of how not to build a club house.

Secondly Berch never played rugby for Tullow he coached there for sure but never played there. He first picked up a rugby ball when he started in Newbridge College. :P


Ah Jimmy, surely you can do better than that.........................................WUM


Don't mind Jimmy. He's been with more clubs than the hairs on his head. A veritable rugby slapper! :P :wink:
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby groundhog » May 21st, 2008, 8:09 am

The IRFU rule that Cill Dara's objection was outside the 14 day window for objections and their appeal has no grounds. Cill Dara can pursue this to the sporting arbitration body but probably wise to let it lie imho.
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby d angry kid » May 21st, 2008, 10:10 am

groundhog wrote:The IRFU rule that Cill Dara's objection was outside the 14 day window for objections and their appeal has no grounds. Cill Dara can pursue this to the sporting arbitration body but probably wise to let it lie imho.
horseshite- how d hell did the irfu decide that? the 14 day rule applies to senior clubs and competitions NOT junior???
personally i feel a major grievance over the way the round robin and the leinster league (probably the most competitive of the 4 provinces) has been treated and made a mockery of. and in relation to monivea-lover sea_point and others like him: what would you say if this had happened to your club??? surely cill dara deserve a shot at waterpark at least. i say appeal.
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby groundhog » May 21st, 2008, 10:32 am

The rules applied to Monivea hence their explusion, it would be imprudent imho to pursue the case otherwise. Save the anger for the Leinster Senior Cup, the All-Ireland Junior Cup, the Hosie Cup, the Towns Cup and of course retaining your Leinster League title and another crack at the round-robin.
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby silly punt » May 21st, 2008, 11:20 am

d angry kid wrote:
groundhog wrote:The IRFU rule that Cill Dara's objection was outside the 14 day window for objections and their appeal has no grounds. Cill Dara can pursue this to the sporting arbitration body but probably wise to let it lie imho.
horseshite- how d hell did the irfu decide that? the 14 day rule applies to senior clubs and competitions NOT junior???
personally i feel a major grievance over the way the round robin and the leinster league (probably the most competitive of the 4 provinces) has been treated and made a mockery of. and in relation to monivea-lover sea_point and others like him: what would you say if this had happened to your club??? surely cill dara deserve a shot at waterpark at least. i say appeal.


Jaysus, you really are an angry kid, that decision was an appeal. As GH said next season is going to be a big season either way, so lets concentrate on the things we can control.

Remind me again, are you sure you're not a BIFFO? :wink: :lol:
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby Sea_point » May 21st, 2008, 1:37 pm

d angry kid wrote:
groundhog wrote:The IRFU rule that Cill Dara's objection was outside the 14 day window for objections and their appeal has no grounds. Cill Dara can pursue this to the sporting arbitration body but probably wise to let it lie imho.
horseshite- how d hell did the irfu decide that? the 14 day rule applies to senior clubs and competitions NOT junior???
personally i feel a major grievance over the way the round robin and the leinster league (probably the most competitive of the 4 provinces) has been treated and made a mockery of. and in relation to monivea-lover sea_point and others like him: what would you say if this had happened to your club??? surely cill dara deserve a shot at waterpark at least. i say appeal.


Dunno about Monivea lover, I was down there watching Seapoint to be honest. But having seen the set up and knowing the area from my youth I can see they've put a massive amount of work in, and they have to work harder than most junior clubs to get teams out becasue of the extremley low population density in the surrounding area (that famous Munster town Athenry (pop. 3.2K) is about 9KM, then you're talking Galway which is 28KM away.....

But in light of the issue surrounding the Waterpark game, the IRFU should atomatically investgate the details of the Monivea - Cill Dara game and if something was amiss then to rule on it. I would have thought arranging a play-off between Waterpark & Cill Dara (based on squads lited at the end of last season as well) would be the fairest way of resolving this.

But hey, I'm not a focking Blazer....... :roll:
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby xavier » May 22nd, 2008, 12:01 am

I think its great for the sport. The use of ringers in rugby is widespread, especially at junior level. Player registration is a joke, quite simply. We all know who the main offenders are. They get away with it every week too and little clubs suffer. The Irfu are not prepared to do anything about it.
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby the spoofer » May 22nd, 2008, 9:54 am

The system in youths rugby is that you turn up for the game with your team sheet detailing names, date of birth, reg number and signed by the kids and coaches.

You must have the reg cards with you and each coach selects a number of cards to check. If you do not have your cards the other team are entitled to claim the game.

Whats so hard about that for senior teams?
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby silly punt » May 23rd, 2008, 3:18 pm

Taken from the domestic rugby site on Leinsterrugby.ie

Statement on the IRFU Appeal decision...


Background:

Cill Dara RFC participated in AIL Round Robin series as result of winning the Leinster league Division 1 title. Cill Dara were beaten by Monivea RFC 20-17 on 05/04/2008 in the last game of the competition, by a try in the 8th minute of injury time, this denied Cill Dara a playoff game against Waterpark RFC, the winners of which would compete in the AIL Division 3 next season. Monivea subsequently played Waterpark and beat them 35-3, however it was then discovered that Monivea had played an illegal player under an assumed name, throughout the round robin series and in the playoff game.

Upon receipt of this information on 29/04/2008, Cill Dara RFC arranged an executive committee meeting on 30/04/2008 at which it was decided unanimously to lodge an objection. Cill Dara delivered its objection to the IRFU on 02/05/2008, unfortunately later that day the IRFU league committee or a person delegated by it, rejected the objection on the grounds that it was not within the 14 day time limit as outlined under AIL League & Cup rules (section 9 of the IRFU handbook).

Cill Dara had 14 days to lodge an appeal to the IRFU Appeals committee; Cill Dara lodged their appeal on 13/05/2008 and was subsequently informed that the hearing would be held on 20/05/2008. The IRFU rejected Cill Dara’s appeal at that hearing.

Statement:

The Executive Committee of Cill Dara RFC wish to express their disappointment at the rejection of their appeal by the IRFU appeals committee on Tuesday 20/05/2008.

Cill Dara RFC believes the best interests of rugby were not served by this decision. They also believe that in making this decision the IRFU have set a dangerous precedent whereby, if a team knowingly cheats and disguises their deception and if they are not caught within 14 days the IRFU are powerless to change any results which were affected by that deception.

Cill Dara RFC would also like to state that they received a fair hearing from the IRFU appeals committee. Their interpretation of the current rules was the basis upon which they based their decision. However Cill Dara would contend that the IRFU should review this ruling and legislate for future cases of such importance.

While having the option of going to the high court or sports arbitration the executive committee of Cill Dara RFC decide that would not be in the best interests of rugby. Cill Dara will instead concentrate all of their resources on the coming season.

Next season will see Cill Dara compete in both the Leinster Senior Cup and the All Ireland Junior Cup for the first time in our history. Cill Dara will also defend their Leinster League Division 1 title; the executive committee believe that the club should concentrate all of their efforts on achieving success in these competitions.

Cill Dara would like to thank all of the people who have helped throughout this unfortunate incident. We would also like to thank all of the people and clubs in Leinster who have been so supportive over the past few weeks.

Cill Dara RFC will not be making any further comments on this situation and take no responsibility for any other comments.

The Executive Committee of Cill Dara RFC
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Re: MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

Postby Sea_point » May 24th, 2008, 2:08 am

Fair Dues CD, would have been devisive for the club to drag the IRFU through the courts in the hope that the decision would be upturned. While the result may have gone in their favour, they could burn a lot of bridge in the process.

Wise decision in the end, good luck for next season. Obviously it's Seapoints year again next year.... :wink:
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