MONIVEA CONTRVERSEY IN AIL

[Irish Tah]

Statement from the IRFU - http://www.irishrugby.ie/23_12221.php

"This playoff game was to determine the final place in AIB League Division 3 for season 2008-2009 and the game was won by Monivea.
Arising from the game and on foot of objections by Waterpark RFC, the IRFU Hearing Committee ruled that Monivea were guilty of playing an illegal player and of impersonating another player on their team sheet.

As a result of this finding, the Hearing Committee decided to award the match to Waterpark RFC, who retain their status in AIB League Division 3 for season 2008-09 subject to any appeals lodged in relation to the ruling."

[Sea_point]

By the way, Monivea's dishonesty affects a lot of clubs. For there starters there is my own club Cill Dara, the possible relegation play-off teams Ashbourne, Roscrea, Railway Union, Athy and in Connacht OLBC.

This is leaving a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths, what I fail to understand is why didn't Monivea just put their hands up before the Round-Robin, the IRFU requested all registered players before the series began therefore Monivea knew at that stage Gavin was not registered, that is the time to realise a clerical error has been made and to be honest and put your hand up and hopefully the IRFU will allow the player to be registered and if not so be it and have faith in your squad. Instead Monivea let the integrity of the game down, their own branch down but most importantly they let themselves down. Everyteam in that round-robin sweat blood and tears to be there, it's a lot easier for Monivea to bounce back than it will be for either Cashel or Cill Dara. No matter what the sport failure to register players is a serious offence, the integrity of the game comes above all else.

Groundhog, give it a fecking rest. Stop tarring a decent club like Monivea with all this shite, there are a lot of good people playing on various teams in the club who would have absolutely no knowledge of this course of events. This could come down to the decision of two or three individuals, not the whole fecking club. So get of you're high horse....

[groundhog]

This could come down to the decision of two or three individuals, not the whole fecking club. So get of you're high horse....

Bullsh*t, only a fool would believe that. Monivea cheated, and as far as hard work gone into the club, you haven't a clue, they have no club-house, a horse paddock for a pitch and dressing-rooms with no doors situated 600m away beside a pub. The have the worst set-up of any club I have ever seen. So would you ever stop trying to fly the Connacht flag because your sanctimonious ramblings really do grate, you have no investment in this discussion and really are been shown up for the fool you are.

[the spoofer]

This could come down to the decision of two or three individuals, not the whole fecking club. So get of you're high horse....

Bullsh*t, only a fool would believe that. Monivea cheated, and as far as hard work gone into the club, you haven't a clue, they have no club-house, a horse paddock for a pitch and dressing-rooms with no doors situated 600m away beside a pub. The have the worst set-up of any club I have ever seen. So would you ever stop trying to fly the Connacht flag because your sanctimonious ramblings really do grate, you have no investment in this discussion and really are been shown up for the fool you are.

Plus their underage teams are indisciplined and dangerous!

[Sea_point]

This could come down to the decision of two or three individuals, not the whole fecking club. So get of you're high horse....

Bullsh*t, only a fool would believe that. Monivea cheated, and as far as hard work gone into the club, you haven't a clue, they have no club-house, a horse paddock for a pitch and dressing-rooms with no doors situated 600m away beside a pub. The have the worst set-up of any club I have ever seen. So would you ever stop trying to fly the Connacht flag because your sanctimonious ramblings really do grate, you have no investment in this discussion and really are been shown up for the fool you are.

Listen you ignorant cretin, not all rugby clubs started with 5 floodlight pitches and state of the art clubhouses and especially not in GAA heartland and the state of their facilities has no bearing whatsoever on this issue at hand (but sure if it satisifies your inflated ego to look down your nose at them, it say a lot about you as a rugby person). You no more than me, do not have all the facts so stop spouting off like you know everything realting to this situation, you don't period.....!

By the way dude Rugby clubs are a damn sight more than mere physical structures, people put in a huge amounts of their time in the background arranging coaching, logistics and even implementing basic facilities or chasing down funding especially in a massively rural area.

[groundhog]

You no more than me, do not have all the facts so stop spouting off like you know everything realting to this situation, you don't period.....!

Now that is ignorance, read through the thread and you can see that I know a lot more about this case than some Internet warrior who feels he has to go on a crusade to defend the "good name" of Monivea just because he happens to be from a parish 5 miles away.

Listen you ignorant cretin, not all rugby clubs started with 5 floodlight pitches and state of the art clubhouses and especially not in GAA heartland and the state of their facilities has no bearing whatsoever on this issue at hand

Yet more ignorance, Cill Dara started off with horse stables as dressing rooms and played games in the National Stud, they built from the bottom up and invested wisely. A club that is also less than 30 years old and is also situated in a GAA heartland, not too mention bloody horse racing yet they still provide top class facilities, like I might add nearly every club in Leinster. By the way an AIL club has to provide proper facilities and there was a chance Monivea would have to ground share.

By the way dude Rugby clubs are a damn sight more than mere physical structures, people put in a huge amounts of their time in the background arranging coaching, logistics and even implementing basic facilities or chasing down funding especially in a massively rural area.

That can be said about every club from GAA to Soccer to Rugby it does not make Monivea special, it makes them normal. Monivea have let those people now, their supporters, their members. They deserve every criticism they get.

[Sea_point]

You no more than me, do not have all the facts so stop spouting off like you know everything realting to this situation, you don't period.....!

Now that is ignorance, read through the thread and you can see that I know a lot more about this case than some Internet warrior who feels he has to go on a crusade to defend the "good name" of Monivea just because to be from a parish 5 miles away.

Listen you ignorant cretin, not all rugby clubs started with 5 floodlight pitches and state of the art clubhouses and especially not in GAA heartland and the state of their facilities has no bearing whatsoever on this issue at hand

Yet more ignorance, Cill Dara started off with horse stables as dressing rooms and played games in the National Stud, they built from the bottom up and invested wisely. A club that is also less than 30 years old and is also situated in a GAA heartland, not too mention bloody horse racing yet they still provide top class facilities, like I might add nearly every club in Leinster. By the way an AIL club has to provide proper facilities and there was a chance Monivea would have to ground share.

By the way dude Rugby clubs are a damn sight more than mere physical structures, people put in a huge amounts of their time in the background arranging coaching, logistics and even implementing basic facilities or chasing down funding especially in a massively rural area.

That can be said about every club from GAA to Soccer to Rugby it does not make Monivea special, it makes them normal. Monivea have let those people now, their supporters, their members. They deserve every criticism they get.

Since when is the West Dublin suburbs GAA heartland , rugby has been established in the area for a lot longer than in Monivea. I played all over Leinster in my underage rugby days (North Kildare, Curragh, Navan, Naas, Carlow, Dundalk, Wicklow, Ashbourne etc, etc..) and some of the facilties were frankly disgusting compared to what they are now. The fact remains that the likes of Cill Dara has a much bigger population to canvass playing and financial support from. Galway city is well served with rugby clubs already, so not recruiting grounds for Monivea, in fact the opposite.

How many of Cill Dara's players will have played schools rugby at some level, compared to Monivea's. Way, way more, is the answer. Monivea and immediate area has a population of about 850 people, not even a tenth of the poulation of Kildare town and of course you pull players from Newbridge and Kilcullen as well so the catchment is about 30,000 people in all. For evey Euro that Cill Dara pull in, the like of Monivea have to work ten times as hard to get support to the same level. If their players are working in Galway city (which no doun most are) they are commuting. Kildare, Newbridge and Naas are big enought to sustain business for players to remain relatively local to the club.

My point is that you are not making a clear enough distinction between the people who knew nothing at all about the anomolies and the small group of people who may have been in the know, you are tarnishing everyone in Monivea RFC with the same brush without any hard acts or being able to acurately identify anyone involved on the administration side.

[groundhog]

Maybe I am been harsh but after been involved with a team that lost a heart-breaking game to what turns out to be a team with an illegal player it is very hard to digest. Cill Dara actually have a long history with Monivea and as recently as last week-end Cill Dara's u13 were on tour down there which makes it even harder to believe that they cheated us as well.

Also you have to remember these are elected officials in Monivea, they are representative off their members and what they do reflects on the members and the club. Looking at some of the comments on the Knock On site, there is a fair amount of anger in Connacht Junior circles as well. I don't even feel anger just over-whelming disappointment.

[silly punt]

You no more than me, do not have all the facts so stop spouting off like you know everything realting to this situation, you don't period.....!

Now that is ignorance, read through the thread and you can see that I know a lot more about this case than some Internet warrior who feels he has to go on a crusade to defend the "good name" of Monivea just because to be from a parish 5 miles away.

Listen you ignorant cretin, not all rugby clubs started with 5 floodlight pitches and state of the art clubhouses and especially not in GAA heartland and the state of their facilities has no bearing whatsoever on this issue at hand

Yet more ignorance, Cill Dara started off with horse stables as dressing rooms and played games in the National Stud, they built from the bottom up and invested wisely. A club that is also less than 30 years old and is also situated in a GAA heartland, not too mention bloody horse racing yet they still provide top class facilities, like I might add nearly every club in Leinster. By the way an AIL club has to provide proper facilities and there was a chance Monivea would have to ground share.

By the way dude Rugby clubs are a damn sight more than mere physical structures, people put in a huge amounts of their time in the background arranging coaching, logistics and even implementing basic facilities or chasing down funding especially in a massively rural area.

That can be said about every club from GAA to Soccer to Rugby it does not make Monivea special, it makes them normal. Monivea have let those people now, their supporters, their members. They deserve every criticism they get.

Since when is the West Dublin suburbs GAA heartland , rugby has been established in the area for a lot longer than in Monivea. I played all over Leinster in my underage rugby days (North Kildare, Curragh, Navan, Naas, Carlow, Dundalk, Wicklow, Ashbourne etc, etc..) and some of the facilties were frankly disgusting compared to what they are now. The fact remains that the likes of Cill Dara has a much bigger population to canvass playing and financial support from. Galway city is well served with rugby clubs already, so not recruiting grounds for Monivea, in fact the opposite.

How many of Cill Dara's players will have played schools rugby at some level, compared to Monivea's. Way, way more, is the answer. Monivea and immediate area has a population of about 850 people, not even a tenth of the poulation of Kildare town and of course you pull players from Newbridge and Kilcullen as well so the catchment is about 30,000 people in all. For evey Euro that Cill Dara pull in, the like of Monivea have to work ten times as hard to get support to the same level. If their players are working in Galway city (which no doun most are) they are commuting. Kildare, Newbridge and Naas are big enought to sustain business for players to remain relatively local to the club.

My point is that you are not making a clear enough distinction between the people who knew nothing at all about the anomolies and the small group of people who may have been in the know, you are tarnishing everyone in Monivea RFC with the same brush without any hard acts or being able to acurately identify anyone involved on the administration side.

Sea-point, there is nobody doubting anything you say with regard to Monivea, however the fact remains that they broke the rules. The secretarys of the clubs competing in the round robin series were asked to submit a list of registered players to the IRFU for scrutiny before the competition started, all of the competing clubs had to comply. At that stage Monivea were aware that John Gavin was un-registered. They could have chosen to apply to the IRFU to register the the player at that stage, they could well have agreed if it was deemed a clerical error.
But they choose not to, they choose to play John Gavin under an assumed name, compounding the first incident with a premeditated deception.

If you are saying that only a couple of people were aware of the deception, that does not exempt them from the rules. I am sure they will have to answer to the membership at an AGM. But fact remains the 3 other teams in the competition adhered to the rules. So attacking GH or Cill Dara by association is incorrect, rules cannot be ignored because a club has put in great work & have to work harder than other clubs to raise money. That arguement is folly & if everybody followed that logic there would be no point in having rules, just a free for all would ensue.

Interestingly enough John Gavin did not play in the Connacht Junior Cup Final against Galwegians (that game was played between the Cill Dara & Waterpark games), that to me suggests that more than a couple of people knew at that stage. But they still decided to go ahead and play him against Waterpark the following week,

Finally if you are looking for scapecoats, perhaps an individual from a local club who inadvertently called Waterpark to forward this information should be where you start looking.

[Sea_point]

My point is that you are not making a clear enough distinction between the people who knew nothing at all about the anomolies and the small group of people who may have been in the know, you are tarnishing everyone in Monivea RFC with the same brush without any hard acts or being able to acurately identify anyone involved on the administration side.

Sea-point, there is nobody doubting anything you say with regard to Monivea, however the fact remains that they broke the rules. The secretarys of the clubs competing in the round robin series were asked to submit a list of registered players to the IRFU for scrutiny before the competition started, all of the competing clubs had to comply. At that stage Monivea were aware that John Gavin was un-registered. They could have chosen to apply to the IRFU to register the the player at that stage, they could well have agreed if it was deemed a clerical error.
But they choose not to, they choose to play John Gavin under an assumed name, compounding the first incident with a premeditated deception.

If you are saying that only a couple of people were aware of the deception, that does not exempt them from the rules. I am sure they will have to answer to the membership at an AGM. But fact remains the 3 other teams in the competition adhered to the rules. So attacking GH or Cill Dara by association is incorrect, rules cannot be ignored because a club has put in great work & have to work harder than other clubs to raise money. That arguement is folly & if everybody followed that logic there would be no point in having rules, just a free for all would ensue.

Interestingly enough John Gavin did not play in the Connacht Junior Cup Final against Galwegians (that game was played between the Cill Dara & Waterpark games), that to me suggests that more than a couple of people knew at that stage. But they still decided to go ahead and play him against Waterpark the following week,

Finally if you are looking for scapecoats, perhaps an individual from a local club who inadvertently called Waterpark to forward this information should be where you start looking.

I conceded right from the very beginning that they were wrong to play an uregistered player, but nobody knows who or how man persons were aware that they were fielding a non-registered player, bear in mind he is a player who grew up playing for Monieva so 90+ percent would have thought nothing about him pulling on the jersey again. Their thinking would have been that the admin is for the alicadoo's to sort out, which is fair enough in my book.

With regards to the Wegians game, there were a whole bunch of players injured after the first two rounds of the Rond Robin, so it may have been that he was injured. It's not realy clear from anything that has been confirmed thus far.

My point is that the individuals who were in the know should be rightly castigated by their club member, if the registration issue was deliberately concealed but not necessarily the whole club.

[jimmy the bone]

Sea_point,
Don't be minding them Cill Dara fools. They're just sick as parrots because they have missed their chance to go senior. Now with the emergence of Newbridge across the Curragh they know their downfall is imminent Oh and by the way one thing about the Curragh RFC there was nothing wrong with their facilities

[Darce]

http://www.monivearfc.com/

they'd wanna get that splash page down ASAP

[silly punt]

From todays Indo


Thursday May 15 2008

MONIVEA have been sensationally dumped out of the AIB League after the IRFU found them guilty of "playing an illegal player and impersonating another player on their team sheet."

The Galway junior club won promotion to Division 3 of the league when they defeated Waterpark 35-3 in a play-off game on April 19. However, Waterpark lodged an objection contesting the result and, following a meeting of the IRFU AIB League Disciplinary Committee, it was decided the Waterford club would retain their Division 3 status with the union releasing a statement yesterday.

Guilty

"On foot of objections by Waterpark RFC, the IRFU Hearing Committee ruled that Monivea were guilty of playing an illegal player and of impersonating another player on their team sheet," read the statement.

"As a result of this finding, the Hearing Committee decided to award the match to Waterpark RFC, who retain their status in AIB League Division 3 for season 2008-09 subject to any appeals lodged in relation to the ruling."

Monivea held their AGM last night and it is expected that they will appeal the decision. Their expulsion has wider implications for the club in relation to their future participation in the Connacht Junior League.

There were widely differing versions of events emanating from both clubs yesterday with Waterpark describing Monivea's behaviour as "appalling" and the Galway club maintaining they "made a genuine mistake".

"We videoed Monivea's match against Kildare before we played them and when we met in the play-off we noticed three or four different players in their side even though their team-sheet was identical," said Waterpark's Maurice Keller.

"We also went on the Bebo website where Monivea players were leaving messages for each other, laughing and joking about the games against Kildare and ourselves.

"We gathered all our evidence and lodged an objection and we're delighted the Hearing Committee backed us up because Monivea's behaviour has been appalling. Stunts like that are totally against the spirit of the game," he added.

However, a Movivea source last night dismissed Waterpark's claims as "a load of rubbish" but did admit there had been an error in paperwork in relation to one home-grown player.

"There was a situation regarding one player who moved to Dublin and played one season there before coming back to us," said the source.

Genuine

"They investigated six of our players and the paperwork for this one guy wasn't done properly, that was a genuine mistake. When the round-robin started, we realised the paperwork was wrong and didn't include him on our list of players. But he is from Monivea and had played for us all season. The rest of their claims are a load of rubbish.

"This is a simple case of Waterpark not being able to take a beating. Waterford is a big city, while Monivea is a tiny village with only 28 people who actually sleep in it. They didn't even know where Monivea was, they had no respect for us but we still hammered them," he added.

- Hugh Farrelly

[Darce]

"There was a situation regarding one player who moved to Dublin and played one season there before coming back to us," said the source.

Genuine

"They investigated six of our players and the paperwork for this one guy wasn't done properly, that was a genuine mistake. When the round-robin started, we realised the paperwork was wrong and didn't include him on our list of players. But he is from Monivea and had played for us all season. The rest of their claims are a load of rubbish.

"This is a simple case of Waterpark not being able to take a beating. Waterford is a big city, while Monivea is a tiny village with only 28 people who actually sleep in it. They didn't even know where Monivea was, they had no respect for us but we still hammered them," he added.

Bah hahahahaha

[Mustapha]

This is a simple case of Waterpark not being able to take a beating. Waterford is a big city, while Monivea is a tiny village with only 28 people who actually sleep in it. They didn't even know where Monivea was, they had no respect for us but we still hammered them.

This. This is briliant.

[raw deal]

what assitance is the LBRFU giving cill dara wish to appeal the result of Round robin, seams unfair that Waterpark are looking to stay up as a result of the cheating of Monivea RfC.Cill Dara should also appeal, why not , they have been done an injustice, and lenister junior rugby if you ask me, they won the league undefeated , and lost to an 8th min injury time score, and carried the hopes of all in leinster junior rugby, some more than others particularly railway union and ashbourne who where religated as a result, roscrea and athy.

The faciltys of Cill Dara are truly first class and a credit to the efforts of the commitee of the club,but i also rember their facilitys been a lot worse,including a lot of junior clubs, Barnhall played out of the local meatpackers for years,but through the hard work of their commitees they have improved and set targets and standards for everyone else to follow.

Monivea RFC, have brought the Game into disrupute, to say players where not aware is false, i am sure that if i was playing with a fella all season and he changed his name i might guess something was up.

Paperwork error i could possibly understand but to deliberately change his name is CHEATING , their are plenty of small clubs in lenister, who play rugby , in small towns and compete with other sports, that doesnt excuse them from the rules we ALL play to what is rugby without the RULES and LAWS, for such high profile rule breaking brings the game that we all know into a light which simply disgusting.

maybe boyne could bring Shane Horgan back for a towns cup game, or Jackman for tullow, kearney for dundalk etc., because they played for those clubs when they where younger.

Any good follower of junior rugby will see this as nothing more than a shallow team and a club of little honour.

[d angry kid]

ok so, as soon as u guys who seem to be from newbridge, cill dara and seapoint stop bickering over which club is the most honest to goodness, hardworking..... blah! we can get back to the issue in hand. my question is will cill dara get a shot at the AIL playoff? the writing seems to be firmly on d wall for monivea and surely if the waterpark result has been over turned, then the cill dara one should be too? it's an extremely interesting one.... monivea are hardly gonna appeal as they don't even seem to have one leg to stand on?! falsified or otherwise! and leagues/fixtures/panels for both senior and junior leagues need to be finalised by june isn't it???

[silly punt]

ok so, as soon as u guys who seem to be from newbridge, cill dara and seapoint stop bickering over which club is the most honest to goodness, hardworking..... blah! we can get back to the issue in hand. my question is will cill dara get a shot at the AIL playoff? the writing seems to be firmly on d wall for monivea and surely if the waterpark result has been over turned, then the cill dara one should be too? it's an extremely interesting one.... monivea are hardly gonna appeal as they don't even seem to have one leg to stand on?! falsified or otherwise! and leagues/fixtures/panels for both senior and junior leagues need to be finalised by june isn't it???

The IRFU statement said that Waterpark would retain their AIL status, so therefor there would be no playoff game.

My information is Monivea will appeal & they have 14 days to do so.

[Durkah Durkah]

This. This is briliant.

I agree. We want appeals and counter-appeals please!

[CRAZYDAVE]

This is a simple case of Waterpark not being able to take a beating. Waterford is a big city, while Monivea is a tiny village with only 28 people who actually sleep in it. They didn't even know where Monivea was, they had no respect for us but we still hammered them.

This. This is briliant.

The "City Slickers" mentality...

Saw it in action when I played with Sligo RFC against Galway city clubs