Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

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Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby simonno6 » May 30th, 2008, 2:46 pm

Gonzaga college have today been 'heavily pursuaded' to withdraw from the second tier Senior League competition, which is used to qualify for the Senior Cup.

'The Green Machine' will now qualify automatically for the Senior Cup. Gonzagas dominant form in the Senior League over the last five years appears to be the catalyst for this move.

This move brings to 8 Schools that qualify automatically for the competition. They are, Blackrock, Terenure, St.Marys, Castleknock, Clongowes, Belvedere, St.Michaels and Gonzaga.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby jimmy the bone » May 30th, 2008, 3:52 pm

Can Somebody explain to me what Castleknock are doing in the main draw :shock:
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby tackle-bag » May 30th, 2008, 4:12 pm

jimmy the bone wrote:Can Somebody explain to me what Castleknock are doing in the main draw :shock:


Haven't they been in a few Junior Cup finals over the past few years? If they can translate that form to the Senior Cup, they would more than deserve their automatic place.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby simonno6 » May 30th, 2008, 4:12 pm

Castleknock were a league side 4 years ago but were given the same exemption gonzaga are being given now.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby its about winning » May 30th, 2008, 4:58 pm

simonno6 wrote:Gonzaga college have today been 'heavily pursuaded' to withdraw from the second tier Senior League competition, which is used to qualify for the Senior Cup.

'The Green Machine' will now qualify automatically for the Senior Cup. Gonzagas dominant form in the Senior League over the last five years appears to be the catalyst for this move.

This move brings to 8 Schools that qualify automatically for the competition. They are, Blackrock, Terenure, St.Marys, Castleknock, Clongowes, Belvedere, St.Michaels and Gonzaga.



Maybe if the development department of Leinster came up with a super 8's comp. for these schools the standard would go up. (Two groups of 4)- semi and a final all before christmas.
I see Skerries are now replacing gonzaga in the League. - With Castleknock & and now Gonzaga out of it the comp. is now very devalued. CBC Monkstown will keep winning it for years to come with the likes of St. Andrews/Wesley/KH producing a decent team once every 3/ years. My money is on Skerries to cause a bit of a surprise in this years League. Anyone have the groups or are they out yet?????
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby bunty85 » May 30th, 2008, 5:16 pm

For all the Leagues Gonzaga have won they've done nothing really in the Senior Cup, not one semi in their history I believe. The League is a joke, it basically destroys the historically mid ranking teams by the start of the Cup. Rock and the rest have such an advantage when it comes to the Cup where as the league sides are competatively playing since September. Since the start of the League competition not one school from outside of the the big 6 have won it which is the opposite as to what the competition is about. Its actually a very competative competition but sitting beside the cup competition isn't working. The whole cup system needs to be reworked drastically.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby simonno6 » May 30th, 2008, 5:22 pm

its about winning wrote:
simonno6 wrote:Gonzaga college have today been 'heavily pursuaded' to withdraw from the second tier Senior League competition, which is used to qualify for the Senior Cup.

'The Green Machine' will now qualify automatically for the Senior Cup. Gonzagas dominant form in the Senior League over the last five years appears to be the catalyst for this move.

This move brings to 8 Schools that qualify automatically for the competition. They are, Blackrock, Terenure, St.Marys, Castleknock, Clongowes, Belvedere, St.Michaels and Gonzaga.



Maybe if the development department of Leinster came up with a super 8's comp. for these schools the standard would go up. (Two groups of 4)- semi and a final all before christmas.
I see Skerries are now replacing gonzaga in the League. - With Castleknock & and now Gonzaga out of it the comp. is now very devalued. CBC Monkstown will keep winning it for years to come with the likes of St. Andrews/Wesley/KH producing a decent team once every 3/ years. My money is on Skerries to cause a bit of a surprise in this years League. Anyone have the groups or are they out yet?????


Skerries certainly do have good potential. I think your idea of a super 8's comp would go down very badly, especially with the likes of monkstown, roscrea and newbridge but your defo onto something with the groups idea. I think 3 groups of four with the top 2 going through to a knockout stage would be a good idea.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby jaybyrne » May 30th, 2008, 5:23 pm

skerries whole team will be fifth years nxt year nearly so they wont do that well.
also I heard Marys will be in the league next year. Anyone know if thats true???
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby simonno6 » May 30th, 2008, 5:23 pm

bunty85 wrote:For all the Leagues Gonzaga have won they've done nothing really in the Senior Cup, not one semi in their history I believe. The League is a joke, it basically destroys the historically mid ranking teams by the start of the Cup. Rock and the rest have such an advantage when it comes to the Cup where as the league sides are competatively playing since September. Since the start of the League competition not one school from outside of the the big 6 have won it which is the opposite as to what the competition is about. Its actually a very competative competition but sitting beside the cup competition isn't working. The whole cup system needs to be reworked drastically.


3 Quarter finals in the last 4 years though, which technically ranks them in the top 8 teams.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby simonno6 » May 30th, 2008, 5:24 pm

jaybyrne wrote:skerries whole team will be fifth years nxt year nearly so they wont do that well.
also I heard Marys will be in the league next year. Anyone know if thats true???


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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby bunty85 » May 30th, 2008, 5:36 pm

simonno6 wrote:
bunty85 wrote:For all the Leagues Gonzaga have won they've done nothing really in the Senior Cup, not one semi in their history I believe. The League is a joke, it basically destroys the historically mid ranking teams by the start of the Cup. Rock and the rest have such an advantage when it comes to the Cup where as the league sides are competatively playing since September. Since the start of the League competition not one school from outside of the the big 6 have won it which is the opposite as to what the competition is about. Its actually a very competative competition but sitting beside the cup competition isn't working. The whole cup system needs to be reworked drastically.


3 Quarter finals in the last 4 years though, which technically ranks them in the top 8 teams.


CBC and Kilkenny have both reached semis in the last 2 years and CBC have been in 3 quaters in the last 4 years iirc. Getting to the quaters can be quite easy, you can have an easy 1st rounder. Semis is much harder because you will have to play a good side to get there, Gonzaga have underachieved in my opinion in the Cup. I don't really see why they warrant being promoted, undoubtably consistant in the League and they'll make much better use of their automatic qualification than Knock who have done nothing recently. For me its how you peform in the Cup, Zaga have seemingly prioritised the league unlike other schools but haven't translated success to the cup. How many leagues have Zaga won in the past few years, I know that it was: KH(CBC runners up) in 2004, Zaga 05(? runners up), ? 06, Zaga(Andrews runners up) in 07 and CBC(Andrews runners up) in 08. Did they win in 06 too?

I'll add that I wouldn't be against them doing it in the Junior section where they've done very well in the cup.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby its about winning » May 30th, 2008, 7:00 pm

Skerries is a group with KH/Templelogue/Newbridge

Don't know who else but the rest of the teams are Pres Bray/St. Andrews/CBC Monkstown/Kilkenny

If anyone knows the rest of the groups can someone post them.

Can't see St Marys going into the league.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby bunty85 » May 30th, 2008, 7:06 pm

Marys were just in the SC final and more than deserve being where they are considering the teams they beat to get there.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby Grumpy Old Man » May 30th, 2008, 11:00 pm

bunty85 wrote:Marys were just in the SC final and more than deserve being where they are considering the teams they beat to get there.


Think Marys may be in the league for JCT (or have to pre qualify or whatever)
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby bluerugbyrules » May 31st, 2008, 2:52 pm

Does this mean that Skerries will become a section B schools like Kings Hospital etc. ????
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby tate » May 31st, 2008, 3:01 pm

go on the green machine. Have they actually been winning the league simon, or is it more of a consistent high level of performance?
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby simonno6 » May 31st, 2008, 4:19 pm

Won it in 05, runners up in 06 and winners in 07 (Going by cup years)
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby thebigcheese » June 1st, 2008, 7:41 pm

The reality is that they had to get the number of direct qualifiers up to 8 with 4 coming through the League or drop to 6 and 6. Last year the league play-off wasn't played before the cup draw, so the teams had an unfair advantage as they had a choice of "draws". Gonzaga have been the most consistant league team at both Junior and Senior for the past 5 years. However their cup campaigns at senior level have not reflected this at senior level.

The obvious thing to do would be to force Castleknock to play in the league. They have not been able to compete with the Gonzagas, CBCs and Pres Brays over the last 5 years. Skerries may play this year and next but will probably drop out then. DLS cannot be guaranteed to enter every year so Gonzaga should not be moved to accomodate these.

The reality is that Gonzaga are not and will not be at the same level as the big 6. They did not get out of their league group last year and probably don't have the playing numbers needed to compete. The league is their best chance of winning and previous league success is probably the big reason that rugby is so big in Zaga now.

The history of teams pulling out of the league is not good. After Newbridges dominance in the late 90's they pulled out and have been an absolute disaster for years. Castleknock haven't won a cup game in years. I'm predicting that if Gonzaga stay out then by 2012 they will be back to their 1980s levels when everybody hammered them and Monkstown, Newbridge, Andrews and Pres Bray will be far more competitive in the long run. Every year their is a mid-ranking school that needs saving from itself. Last year it was Monkstown and this year Gonzaga
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby bunty85 » June 1st, 2008, 8:44 pm

I believe that in in the 5 years we will see CBC emerging to challenge the big 6. Was talking to a friend after the cup and apparently one of the major reasons they were so good this year was because they had greater numbers than normal in their 6th year. They hoped to have a new school built to accomadate bigger numbers but that was held up and they were forced to cut the numbers in the school back to normal levels. When that new school is built they will compete with the big 6, they have a very proffesional set up now apparently as regards coaches and a good school gym from what I hear. Better than when I went anyway!

Are zaga juniors going straight into the cup too does anyone know. What kind of numbers do they have in each year, I reckon you need about 100 to regularly compete with the other schools. Of course Clongowes aren't that big, but they're boarding. Every student must be physically forced to play rugby in Marys because they are good every year.

I also think schools like Pres Bray will have serious trouble trying to compete, they're the only non fee paying school at any sort of decent level. Having good coaches is becoming more important than ever and teachers are limited by their jobs. Pres already lost a potentially excellent team in 07 by losing 3 of their best players to private schools, its hard for them to keep up although I hear they have a decent side next year.
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Re: Gonzaga forced to withdraw from Senior League

Postby thebigcheese » June 1st, 2008, 10:11 pm

bunty85 wrote:I also think schools like Pres Bray will have serious trouble trying to compete, they're the only non fee paying school at any sort of decent level. Having good coaches is becoming more important than ever and teachers are limited by their jobs. Pres already lost a potentially excellent team in 07 by losing 3 of their best players to private schools, its hard for them to keep up although I hear they have a decent side next year.


i think you might be on to something here. Templeogue, De La Salle, St Paul's etc all seem to be going by the wayside. The Leinster Branch has a responsibility to these traditional non-fee paying schools as well as any emerging schools. A system should be put in place to fund Pres Bray and their likes at a much greater level than fee paying schools. Maybe they should pay for a couple of coaches at each of these schools. Teachers are involved less and the religious orders involved don't really coach anymore so its a miracle that they can even afford to compete. I assume that the only reason that Pres Bray can still compete when all the others can't is because of Greystones.

Although, the most successful times for non fee-paying schools were the recession hit 80s (De La Salle, Templeogue and Pres Bray all serious contenders at Senior and Pres dominating the Junior Cup) so if the economy is fecked then all the above might be irrelevant
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