Junior Interpros

[David Reid]

Any word on this

[David Reid]

LEINSTER JUNIORS:

15: Karl Manning (Navan)
14: Stephen McGee (Dundalk)
13: Darren Guest (Dundalk) *
12: Daragh Fitzgerald (Railway Union) *
11: Simon Donnelly (Navan)
10: Kevin O'Brien (Railway Union) *
9: Richie Hughes (Tullamore)

1: Eoin King (Navan)
2: Stephen Verso (Seapoint) *
3: Ciaran Brannigan (Dundalk) *
4: Ronan Bolger (Tullow) *
5: Marcus Stewart (Monkstown) *
6: Nico Vorster (Boyne) *
7: Bernard Smyth (Navan) CAPTAIN
8: Donal Milne (Tullamore) *

* Denotes New Cap

REPLACEMENTS:

16: James Clifford (Monkstown)
17: Richie Bond (Portlaiose)
18: Michael Cody (New Ross)
19: Ross McAuley (Skerries)
20: David Morris (Monkstown)
21: Niall Kerbey (Boyne)
22: David Quirke (Skerries)

[Not Releasing]

Bigger joke than ever I see, two Railway Union players who will play in Division 3 next year, 1 Seapoint, 1 Boyne, 1 Monkstown and no Cill Dara starting, words escape me with that team. Well done to Nico Vorster though, excellent all year.

Did players just not make themselves available?

[Helium54]

I'm presuming that the Kevin O'Brien from Railway Union isn't the cricketing Kevin O'Brien also from Railway Union?

Why don't they work some trial system for this? The counties competition offers a template for that, and if you were to say that the selectors would watch those matches, as well as the Leinster team in the round-robin and the TC finalists, you would have a fairly fair basis for selection IMO.

[thecoolfreak]

The Juniors beat Munster 10-9. A sign of things to come no doubt!!

[Durkah Durkah]

Bigger joke than ever I see, two Railway Union players who will play in Division 3 next year, 1 Seapoint, 1 Boyne, 1 Monkstown and no Cill Dara starting, words escape me with that team. Well done to Nico Vorster though, excellent all year.

Did players just not make themselves available?

Think it is a bit harsh to state it is a joke just because a guy plays for Railway Union or similar are selected. Do you know anything about these players? For example, the centre played for two seasons on UCCs 1sts in Div 2 AIL and was with Railway as work didn't allow him to to give the commitment a AIL or LD1 team would require. I know this because my club tried to sign him.

[Not Releasing]

So his selection was based on past exploits, yep still a joke I see. Going by that logic there must be a lot of agrrieved players in Division 1 because a lot of those guys played Senior too. Selection policy is not transparent and until it is the Leinster Juniors imho opinion will always be a joke, the whole concept of area selectors is ridiculous and just lends itself to selection politics. I mean Dundalk came 8th and bar Navan they have more players than any of the other 7 clubs that finished above them including the Towns Cup winners and the All-Ireland Junior cup winners.

[Helium54]

So his selection was based on past exploits, yep still a joke I see. Going by that logic there must be a lot of agrrieved players in Division 1 because a lot of those guys played Senior too. Selection policy is not transparent and until it is the Leinster Juniors imho opinion will always be a joke, the whole concept of area selectors is ridiculous and just lends itself to selection politics. I mean Dundalk came 8th and bar Navan they have more players than any of the other 7 clubs that finished above them including the Towns Cup winners and the All-Ireland Junior cup winners.

I don't really understand your point. Just because a team does well in the league, does not mean that individually they are the better players. A lower end team may one or two quality players, but because the rest of the players aren't that good may get nowhere in the league. Going by your logic, nobody would be selected from any team bar the top three or four.

[Not Releasing]

How do you judge their quality? They are playing in Division 3, if you are playing well for a Top 4 side in Division 1 you are doing it week in week out against the best Junior players Leinster has to offer. To use soccer as an analogy how many Wolves players do you expect to see in the England set-up next year and how many from the Big 4? It's not rocket science, why do you think Munster have so many Irish representatives and Connacht so few?

[Helium54]

How do you judge their quality? They are playing in Division 3, if you are playing well for a Top 4 side in Division 1 you are doing it week in week out against the best Junior players Leinster has to offer. To use soccer as an analogy how many Wolves players do you expect to see in the England set-up next year and how many from the Big 4? It's not rocket science, why do you think Munster have so many Irish representatives and Connacht so few?

From my experience of Leinster provincial rugby, you frequently find teams where there are one or two quality players, and the rest of the team wouldn't be at the races to the same extent. That has been the case in the past whereby teams who would be lower end Division 1 or Division 2, would provide one or two players to the Leinster Juniors - and those players have frequently proven themselves amongst the best juniors in the province.

The comparisons you give are professional examples, whereby the top teams attract the top talent available in the league. If you are a quality player at Connacht, you'll move elsewhere as you'll get more exposure, more cash, and better coaching. Because you aren't playing H Cup rugby, you aren't perceived as being hardened at that level. That isn't the case in Leinster Junior rugby where if players move up from a lower end Division 1 or a Division II team, they will generally go to a Senior Club.

The point you make about judging their quaility is fair enough - but the same point can be made about a lad playing for a top team as well. It is easy to be a hard running centre when your forwards produce quick ball, your nine can pass, and your ten offers something more than a monster boot. It takes a bit more quality to produce something from cr@p service.

I agree there should be a trial system of sorts - I have proposed such a means above - but I don't seek to dismiss a player's quality just because he is playing Division Three. I have seen quality players - for whatever reason - playing three, four or five leagues below their natural level.

[Not Releasing]

From my experience of Leinster provincial rugby, you frequently find teams where there are one or two quality players, and the rest of the team wouldn't be at the races to the same extent. That has been the case in the past whereby teams who would be lower end Division 1 or Division 2, would provide one or two players to the Leinster Juniors - and those players have frequently proven themselves amongst the best juniors in the province.

Don't agree unless they're playing against quality oppostion they cannot be judged, where is your benchmark?

The comparisons you give are professional examples, whereby the top teams attract the top talent available in the league. If you are a quality player at Connacht, you'll move elsewhere as you'll get more exposure, more cash, and better coaching. Because you aren't playing H Cup rugby, you aren't perceived as being hardened at that level. That isn't the case in Leinster Junior rugby where if players move up from a lower end Division 1 or a Division II team, they will generally go to a Senior Club.

Railway Union are effectively a Divison 4 team based on next season's structure, there is a massive gap between even Division 1 and the Premier Division, it's about playing to a particular standard week-in week-out. Ok since you seem to take professional rugby is not a fair context how many Dublin GAA footballers from Internediate or Junior Clubs on the county panel?

The point you make about judging their quaility is fair enough - but the same point can be made about a lad playing for a top team as well. It is easy to be a hard running centre when your forwards produce quick ball, your nine can pass, and your ten offers something more than a monster boot. It takes a bit more quality to produce something from cr@p service.

But the opposition is of a much higher standard, easier to stand-out at lower levels.

I agree there should be a trial system of sorts - I have proposed such a means above - but I don't seek to dismiss a player's quality just because he is playing Division Three. I have seen quality players - for whatever reason - playing three, four or five leagues below their natural level.

Something we can agree on but what I will is say is give me two player of equal ability and I will choose the player playing at a higher standard.

[David Reid]

LEINSTER JUNIORS:

15: Karl Manning (Navan)
14: Stephen McGee (Dundalk)
13: Aaron Deverell (Tullamore)
12: Daragh Fitzgerald (Railway Union)
11: Kevin O'Brien (Railway Union)
10: Gearoid O'Grady (Tullamore)
9: Richie Hughes (Tullamore)

1: Richie Bond (Portlaoise)
2: James Clifford (Monkstown) *
3: Eoin King (Navan)
4: Ronan Bolger (Tullow)
5: Donal Milne (Tullamore)
6: Nico Vorster (Boyne)
7: Bernard Smyth (Navan) CAPTAIN
8: Jonathan Walsh (Seapoint)

* Denotes New Cap

REPLACEMENTS:

16: John Baker (Navan)
17: Ciaran Brannigan (Dundalk)
18: Marcus Stewart (Monkstown)
19: Ross McAuley (Skerries)
20: Niall O'Donoghue (Coolmine)
21: Darren Guest (Dundalk)
22: David Quirke (Skerries)

[Helium54]

Don't agree unless they're playing against quality oppostion they cannot be judged, where is your benchmark?

Subjective observation - It is the only thing anyone can go by. And while you would like to see how a player would do in a top-end competitive match, I wouldn't doubt the quality of player who is playing well in his own matches and then shows up well in training.

The comparisons you give are professional examples, whereby the top teams attract the top talent available in the league. If you are a quality player at Connacht, you'll move elsewhere as you'll get more exposure, more cash, and better coaching. Because you aren't playing H Cup rugby, you aren't perceived as being hardened at that level. That isn't the case in Leinster Junior rugby where if players move up from a lower end Division 1 or a Division II team, they will generally go to a Senior Club.

Railway Union are effectively a Divison 4 team based on next season's structure, there is a massive gap between even Division 1 and the Premier Division, it's about playing to a particular standard week-in week-out. Ok since you seem to take professional rugby is not a fair context how many Dublin GAA footballers from Internediate or Junior Clubs on the county panel?

Again, the point doesn't hold. If you are a good junior player, you will either go senior, or stay at your club. There is relatively little intra-league transfers from my experience in comparsion to players who go senior. So, if you have a good player in the new Division 1 or 2, he will either stay with the club he has always played with or move to a senior outfit. Given all that, you frequently get very good players playing beneath themselves with the team that they are loyal to. Nearly every club has examples of that. I don't see why they should be automatically excluded from selection.

The point you make about judging their quaility is fair enough - but the same point can be made about a lad playing for a top team as well. It is easy to be a hard running centre when your forwards produce quick ball, your nine can pass, and your ten offers something more than a monster boot. It takes a bit more quality to produce something from cr@p service.

But the opposition is of a much higher standard, easier to stand-out at lower levels.

True enough, but I would not discount a player standing out in the lower Divisions if that player then can produce the quaility in training, and then in competitive matches.

I agree there should be a trial system of sorts - I have proposed such a means above - but I don't seek to dismiss a player's quality just because he is playing Division Three. I have seen quality players - for whatever reason - playing three, four or five leagues below their natural level.

Something we can agree on but what I will is say is give me two player of equal ability and I will choose the player playing at a higher standard.[/quote]

And give two players, one with a bit more ability than the other, and I will pick the player with the greater ability irrespective of who he is playing for.

[Openside]

Connacht suffered a heartbreaking last second defeat to Leinster on Saturday going down 20-18 despite outscoring the men in blue three tries to two!

[David Reid]

LEINSTER JUNIORS:
15: Karl Manning (Navan)
14: Stephen McGee (Dundalk)
13: Aaron Deverell (Tullamore)
12: Daragh Fitzgerald (Railway Union)
11: Kevin O’Brien (Railway Union)
10: Gearoid O’Grady (Tullamore)
9: Richie Hughes (Tullamore)

1: Richie Bond (Portlaoise)
2: James Clifford (Monkstown)
3: Eoin King (Navan)
4: Ronan Bolger (Tullow)
5: Donal Milne (Tullamore)
6: Nico Vorster (Boyne)
8: Ross McAuley (Skerries)
7: Bernard Smyth (Navan) CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: John Baker (Navan)
17: Ciaran Brannigan (Dundalk)
18: David Hanlon (Tullamore)
19: Mark Petriw (Portarlington)
20: Niall O’Donoghue (Coolmine)
21: Jamie Kavanagh (Portlaoise)
22: Mark Harrington (Navan)

[David Reid]

Connacht suffered a heartbreaking last second defeat to Leinster on Saturday going down 20-18 despite outscoring the men in blue three tries to two!

i see you failed to mention how leinster coughed up the three tries

[Power of Greyskull]

Well done Leinster Juniors on your All-Ireland success! Great display by all, I hope this puts these petty arguments to bed. Quality players 1 to 15!