J4 Rugby Metro League

[Jonathan]

At least 3 teams in the A section wont scrummage and a other team if they do start, once they get pushed back the prop has a injury and has to leave!!. of course there are no subs to replace him. And we are taking about the established clubs!

[Leinsterman]

Just because people are large/fat doesn't necessarily mean they can prop!

[Jonathan]

Teach them! We did or do they have coaches that can't coach?
We have 3 lads that are only playing rugby since August, they learned how to prop!
I don't take that as an excuse as most have been playing since they were 8!
I know one guy who said he could not scrummage even though he has played at prop since he was in school!

[Leinsterman]

Teach them! We did or do they have coaches that can't coach?
We have 3 lads that are only playing rugby since August, they learned how to prop!
I don't take that as an excuse as most have been playing since they were 8!
I know one guy who said he could not scrummage even though he has played at prop since he was in school!

In some instances yes.
However, in my own club we recruit new players every year .... many of whom have never played rugby in their lives. Some adapt very well to the game, others don't.
However, if there comes a situation where a rookie player might be forced to scrummage against seasoned players who have played in the front row for over 30 years, it ain't going to happen.
Two reasons:
1. I don't want the player to get injured
2. I don't want to be brought to court because my name is on my club's committee list and thereby get charged with negligence for putting that player in a situation where he got seriously injured.

It's really not worth it for a small club.

Now some people may scoff at this attitude and say "ah if they don't like the rough side of the sport, they should play something else" but the simple fact is that at junior levels, you get a wide range of players ... from lads barely out of the underage groups to ex AIL lads winding down their careers.
There's a very fine balance to be achieved and this is made increasingly difficult when there are woeful mismatches in some games due to clubs fielding their "All Star" teams

[Skyhawk]

If teams don't want to scrummage, then they should play something else or call the game they play in, something else. The scrum is an integral part of RU, nothing worse than watching (or playing) rugby when the scrums are non-contested...a joke really.

[Leinsterman]

If teams don't want to scrummage, then they should play something else or call the game they play in, something else. The scrum is an integral part of RU, nothing worse than watching (or playing) rugby when the scrums are non-contested...a joke really.

It's easy to be critical when one isn't a prop.
Again, would you be happy to send a callow inexperienced player who has barely taken up the game in against someone who has been scrummaging for over 30 years if there is a chance they will get injured, bearing in mind you could very well be held responsible if that player gets injured.

[combatlogo]

If teams don't want to scrummage, then they should play something else or call the game they play in, something else. The scrum is an integral part of RU, nothing worse than watching (or playing) rugby when the scrums are non-contested...a joke really.

It's easy to be critical when one isn't a prop.
Again, would you be happy to send a callow inexperienced player who has barely taken up the game in against someone who has been scrummaging for over 30 years if there is a chance they will get injured, bearing in mind you could very well be held responsible if that player gets injured.

There's just as much chance if not more so such a player wold get injured in a tackle/breakdown situtation.

I take your point but this seems to be a fairly recent phenomeneon, I don't think I ever participated in an uncontested scrum dring my halcyon days of gracing the Leinster junior rugby scene many moons ago. Some clubs are definitely taking the Michael.

Also, your point re senior clubs "stacking" their junior teams is well made - the Gick team running away with the J5 league at the minute is ridiculous, most of their backs should be playing J3/J2.

[Leinsterman]

There's just as much chance if not more so such a player wold get injured in a tackle/breakdown situtation.

True but one can argue that a person doesn't intentionally try to put themself in that situation. I do take your point though.

I take your point but this seems to be a fairly recent phenomeneon, I don't think I ever participated in an uncontested scrum dring my halcyon days of gracing the Leinster junior rugby scene many moons ago. Some clubs are definitely taking the Michael.

The game has changed and most of it is due to the protection of kids at school level. There certainly wasn't any limits on scrums when I was in school. It was full scrummaging all the way.

Also, your point re senior clubs "stacking" their junior teams is well made - the Gick team running away with the J5 league at the minute is ridiculous, most of their backs should be playing J3/J2.

There's been war over "stacking" recently, particularly a certain team that might or might not have been mentioned.
J3/J2? Ha! Try J1 in some cases.

[Jonathan]

There are a lot of teams that when they see an opposition pack or if they have a good back line, they deliberately go uncontested to give themselves the advantage.
If you don't have a front row, play in section B, C, D or E otherwise play to to the rules of union.
There should be a name and shame of this forum.

[Donny B.]

Just on the scrummaging, I sought out the actual rules and there is no requirement for front row players in J4 and J5.


"J4 and J5 Leagues
The Competitions Committee has instigated a largely merit-based J4 League for the coming season and is also introducing a new J5 League.
Below are regulations covering the J4 & J5 Leagues that have been written into the Competitons Regulations, which have been reviewed over the summer and will be circulated next week once they have been approved by the Leinster Branch Executive Committee.
“ 2.7 J4 LEAGUE
The league will be divided into sections and played on a home & away basis. The winners of Section A shall win the league. The winners of Section B shall be awarded a pennant and automatic promotion to Section A. The bottom place team in Section A shall be relegated to Section B. A play off (at a neutral venue) will take place between the second last team in Section A and the runner up in Section B, the winner playing in Section A the following season. If there are more than two sections relegation and promotion will follow as above.
(i) 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw and one point for losing by 7 points or less.
(ii) Six substitutes nominated and can play. Rolling Substitutions ELV shall apply allowing up to 12 substitutions to be made from the match panel.
(iii) Minimum number on a team is 12, maximum number 15 on the pitch.
(iv) No requirement for front row players,
(v) If one team has more players than the other, in order to balance the sides - the team with the greater number of players may allow players to play on the opposing team. The team with the lesser number of players cannot compel the team with the greater number of players to give them players, but the game shall start with an equal number of players on both teams. (i.e. the lower number of players). The team with the greater number of players may use up to and including 21 players in total.
2.8 J5 LEAGUE
The league will be played on a home & away basis.
(i) 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw and one point for losing by 7 points or less.
(ii) Six substitutes nominated and can play. Rolling Substitutions ELV shall apply allowing up to 12 substitutions to be made from the match panel.
(iii) Minimum number on a team is 12, maximum number 15 on the pitch.
(iv) No requirement for front row players,
(v) If one team has more players than the other, in order to balance the sides - the team with the greater number of players may allow players to play on the opposing team. The team with the lesser number of players cannot compel the team with the greater number of players to give them players, but the game shall start with an equal number of players on both teams. (i.e. the lower number of players). The team with the greater number of players may use up to and including 21 players in total”

[rex banner]

Also, your point re senior clubs "stacking" their junior teams is well made - the Gick team running away with the J5 league at the minute is ridiculous, most of their backs should be playing J3/J2.

Stillorgan blotted their copybook last weekend with a 10-10 draw.

[thecoolfreak]

Also, your point re senior clubs "stacking" their junior teams is well made - the Gick team running away with the J5 league at the minute is ridiculous, most of their backs should be playing J3/J2.

Stillorgan blotted their copybook last weekend with a 10-10 draw.

I think that game may have been abandoned because of an injury.

[gleesonisgod]

Also, your point re senior clubs "stacking" their junior teams is well made - the Gick team running away with the J5 league at the minute is ridiculous, most of their backs should be playing J3/J2.

Thing is, who's to say what team a player should be playing on? It happens at every level. There are guys playing J2s who should be playing AIL. Everyone should play where they are happy and if a good player wants to take it easy at J5's who can stop them?

I play J2s with a guy who should be(and was for a few seasons) playing AIL but would rather play with his mates.

I appreciate the frustration of the genuine J4/5 players but there isn't much you can do about it.

[Leinsterman]

I appreciate the frustration of the genuine J4/5 players but there isn't much you can do about it.

True.
However, it'll come to the stage where the junior clubs will tell the Leinster Branch where to stuff their Metro junior leagues.

[Darce]

I think the only sensible solution is a points deduction for going uncontested at the scrum, a la points deduction for a football club going into administration.

The general point is that you bring the game into disrepute so you should be penalised.

I would think 1 point would be fair. Also, particularly if it was possible to win a BP for scoring four tries, you should not be awarded bonus points.

[gleesonisgod]

Also, particularly if it was possible to win a BP for scoring four tries, you should not be awarded bonus points.

You don't get a bonus point if you don't field a front row. Possibly applys to subs to(must have 2). Definately at J1 & J2.

[Leinsterman]

The Branch are looking for entrants for a J6 cup!!!
Due to the fact that a J5 league has been running this year, they aren't allowing the banger/scratch/golden oldie teams enter the J5 cup.
Instead, they'll be entering a new J6 cup.
Bloody hell, it's been ages since there's been one of those.

[combatlogo]

Some J4 teams should probably be playing J5...Emerald Warriors and Tallaght B for instance.

J6?

[Xanthippe]

Some J4 teams should probably be playing J5...Emerald Warriors and Tallaght B for instance.

Backs quietly out of the room - I'm leaving this one for Donny B!

[Leinsterman]

Some J4 teams should probably be playing J5...Emerald Warriors and Tallaght B for instance.

J6?

Hence why there's promotion and relegation.
The J5 league and J4 mini-league were only set up this year so we'll see how it pans out over the next season or two.

There has been a number of application by teams that haven’t played in any League this season to play in existing Cups. For some years now there has been a policy that bars teams that haven’t played in a League from playing in Cups. These teams were normally accommodated in the O’Connor Cup. The J5 league was a new initiative this season which meant that teams that would normally enter the O’Connor Cup could not do so now. In order to accommodate these teams the Competitions Committee is proposing to revive a J6 Cup competition.



The Fox Cup used to be the J6 Cup but is now the Vets Cup; we would propose leaving it as such. We are looking at either reviving one of the Cups that has long since lapsed or initiating a brand new Cup. We are asking clubs with teams that would participate in a J6 Cup to enter by 12:00 noon next Tuesday 9th March. There is a Competitions Committee meeting that evening and if there are enough entries we will proceed with the J6 Cup.

They can call it the Ringer Cup or the Banger Cup