Scrums at Junior Level

[David Reid]

I know this topic will only apply to a select few but i have to say that my frustration have finally boiled over. I feel that scrumaging is the equivlant of the national lottery when it comes to junior level.

No prop sets out to conceed a pentaly but when his back is against the wall he will try certain things to ensure his side gets the ball back.

The Leinster branch should ensure that refs have a sufficent knowledge of scrum. For example half the refs at junior level are very young (whilst being young doesnt mean that they have the ability to ref just the lack on knowledge) and it appears to me they dont have a clue whats going on at scrum time.

This is going in turn to end badly for someone and it will only be the ref responsibility. The laws were chaged to make the scrums more safe but a badly refed scrum can be very dangerous.

Issues
Straight arm binds on the flat of the back (The bull aint very good at that one).

The wheeling of a scrum when the attacking team are still square. The invarriably ends in a trun over. This can be very frustrating. Yes it looks like the defending team have got the upper hand but it is a wheel induced from lack of pushing and actully pulling.

Another junior rugby favorite is the wing forward block a hard scrumaging prop. As far a i know the wing forward should have contact with a prop never mind the props shoulder and the channel.

The wheel of the scrum 90 degree (get the protractors out cause some ref dont understand that when the scrum turns at a right angle and not a full 180 degrees

There is only so my times a prop can talk to the ref before he is black listed but if the ref isnt implementing the rules correctly a person saftey/neck is slightly more important than a refs ego!!

[combatlogo]

If it goes 45 degrees at J2 and below, it's supposed to be reset.

Part of me thinks it's up to the loose head to counter a tight head binding on his arm.

I'm surprised it's that much of an issue, given that most junior games appear to end up with uncontested scrums whcih is a much bigger problem IMO than any apparent deficiencies on the part of refs.

[prophalf]

I find that the only problem the refs have is with the scrum been wheeled. I have played loose head most of this season.
When a tighthead trys to pull the scrum around by going backwards, I break my bind, to Illustrate that the tighthead is pulling (as oppossed to pushing). This is the only way that refs will see it.As the front row opens up. And then they penalise me for breaking my bind even though the tight head is pedaling backwards. I always mention this refs before matchs but they still don't get the point.This really infuriates me. I think they all know the bind, and the wheel. In fairness though most refs at J1 are very good, and we need to be grateful for that.

[David Reid]

I hate to see the standard of ref under div1 then cause it certainly doesnt promote good competive scrumaging

Its fair to say that most ref dont understand the mechanics of the scrum

There should be no counter of binding in scrums as the correct binds are an essential to a legal scrum

Id agree with you prophalf if the scrum is being wheeled staying sqaure should is your best option and letting them peel off of you but then again the ref will prob nab you even though your in the right