Schools Rugby 2018-19

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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby TrapperChamonix » March 7th, 2019, 1:36 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Shame Lacey went with GAA but hardly unexpected, expect Dywer to do the same.

Hopefully the rest are involved with Leinster over the summer. Although Murphy may chose GAA over Rugby.

Belvo could take a step back next year given the losses they will suffer. But I could be way off, while Michaels will be heavy favourites for next year, given 10 players who played yesterday return:



You could be right, there seems to be an expectation that the team in 2 years will be better. But you never know, you come back for August pre season and some kids have grown 6 inches, put on 5kg and suddenly have grown a full beard.....
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby backrower8 » March 7th, 2019, 2:41 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:think it will be a blackrock michaels JCT final.


Agreed.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby backrower8 » March 7th, 2019, 2:58 pm

TrapperChamonix wrote:I havn't watched it back on TV but I think Belvo will view that as one they let slip. Michaels defense was very good but Belvo dominated possession for most of the game. Unfortunately in the 2nd half every time they built pressure, they knocked it on or gave away possession. Some of that was down to their mistakes but you would give Michaels a lot of credit for applying pressure. From a Belvo prespective, I'm sure they were very frustrated with a number of penalites against them for holding on. From my vantage point the Michaels jacklers were not supporting their weight to a very obvious degree (good example is the penalty that ends the game). I saw Coleman ask the ref after on of them. But thems the breaks and you need to adjust. Also they made plenty of mistakes on their own to relieve the pressure . Had Michaels lost I'm sure they would have rued 2 opportunities where they either held up over the line or were shunted in to touch.
2 well matched teams and a very exciting game. Even Belvo working their way from their own goal line to the 1/2 way for 4 mins and countless phases into injury time was a fitting end.
Boyle and Smith were very good for Michaels and obviously Cosgrave is a quality player. Funnily enough I think Zaga will be prefer Michaels than Belvo. The final should be close.


Agree Zaga will prefer Michael's as I am not sure their pack could have lived with the Belvo power.

Belvo should have used the wind in the second half for position and especially lineout mauls. That was a massive miscalculation, good and all as Leonard was. It is the first year in 5 that Belvedere isn't in the final...some record.

Michael's have a clear edge over Zaga in the back-row and 11 through 15. However they will have played 3 massive games in 3 weeks without much use of their bench and Zaga are set for 3 matches in 5 weeks and are phenomenally fit.

Michael's must also be very fit as they lasted very well with just 2 substitutions (one enforced early on) and were hammering into Belvo (who like Rock used 7 subs) with great line speed for 4 minutes after the 70 mins were up - but the coach referenced the proximity of the Rock game and the energy levels in the TV interviews both before and after the match.

Last year's Michael's team was a good bit more talented with David Ryan, Ryan Baird and Scott Penny but they were overly confident and self-destructed, partly due to premature substitutions (hence they hardly use the bench this year) and a lack of discipline leading to the huge number of penalties they gave away in every game. They seem to have curbed that. It was 7 penalties a-piece yesterday and 7-6 in their favour against Rock. Cosgrave's line kicking into the 2nd half wind from penalties was really excellent and it made up for 2 or 3 linekicks he missed in the Rock game.

Michael's favourites but whoever manages the occasion best will take it.
Last edited by backrower8 on March 7th, 2019, 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 7th, 2019, 2:58 pm

backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:think it will be a blackrock michaels JCT final.


Agreed.



Michaels defeated Rock earlier in the season 34-17.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 7th, 2019, 3:00 pm

backrower8 wrote:
Last year's Michael's team was a good bit more talented with David Ryan, Ryan Baird and Scott Penny but they self-destructed and part of that was the lack of discipline leading to the huge number of penalties they gave away. They seem to have curbed that. It was 7 penalties a-piece yesterday and 7-6 in their favour against Rock. Cosgrave's line kicking into the 2nd half wind from penalties was really excellent and it made up for 2 or 3 linekicks he missed in the Rock game.

Michael's favourites but whoever manages the occasion best will take it.


Baird/Penny are a level above Ryan, which is reflected in his absence from the 20's team.

This SCT is more talented than last years 1-15 IMO.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby TrapperChamonix » March 7th, 2019, 3:07 pm

TrapperChamonix wrote:Terenure have been unlucky with the draw in the last 5 years coming up against either Rock or Michaels in the 1st or 2nd round. There was definitely an opportunity for them to progress in this years competition.
Another strong Gonzaga team for the 3rd year in a row.
It really looks like there is a big 4 of Belvedere, Blackrock, Clongowes and Michaels. The next in the pecking order is Roscrea. Marys, Terenure and Gonzaga neck and neck after that.


I've been looking at the results over the last 6 years (2014 to 19) and obviously there is 1 more game to come. The measure of the sides is not really how far you get in the competition as that can be entirely down to the luck of the draw. 1 measure is how often do you compete successfully against the top teams. It this case I have assumed the top teams as the last 5 schools to have won it. (Rock 18, Belvo 17, Roscrea 15, Michaels 12, CWC 11). So how many games has each team won against those 5 teams and here is what you get

Belvo have won 9 games against the following (Michaels 3, Rock 2, CWC 2, Roscrea 2,)
Blackrock 3 wins (Belvedere 1, Michaels 1 & CWC 1)
CWC 2 wins (Belvedere 1 & Michaels 1 in 2014 & 15 respectively)
Michaels 3 wins (Belvedere1, Blackrock 1 & CWC 1) 2 of those this year and CWC last year.
Roscrea 3 wins (Belvedere 1 Blackrock 1 & CWC)


Outside of these teams beating themselves the only other team to beat any of the big 4 is Gonzagas victory over CWC this week. Terenure have not beaten any of them during this time.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 7th, 2019, 3:09 pm

remarkable Belvo has produced so few academy players or even Ireland u20's considering those stats.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby TrapperChamonix » March 7th, 2019, 3:21 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:remarkable Belvo has produced so few academy players or even Ireland u20's considering those stats.


yep
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 7th, 2019, 3:23 pm

Hopefully this team has a few, Soroka certainly has a great chance..
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby backrower8 » March 7th, 2019, 3:25 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Baird/Penny are a level above Ryan, which is reflected in his absence from the 20's team.

This SCT is more talented than last years 1-15 IMO.


Yes re Ryan relative to the other two.

I suppose last year's back 3 are all still in the team a year older, as is Gilsenan...so maybe the backs are better...although I preferred Moran at 10 last year.

But we aren't really getting to see that backline dominate as they might do as the pack aren't as strong and the lineout in particular, given Baird. Granted Boyle and Barron are a year older in the front row, with 1 to go, but the 4th year in the 2nd row is underpowered where the equivalent was a 6th year last year who had a huge game against Belvo.

Even though this year's back row are excellent and will be the difference in the final in my opinion, I think that last year's trio of Penny, Jody Booth and Irish 19s #8 Dan O'Donovan were better and certainly more powerful.

Net-net, this year's backs are better but last year's forwards had a lot more power in the 2nd and back-rows. The biggest differences that matter is their game management and greatly improved discipline, which to was the achilles heel last year.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 7th, 2019, 3:41 pm

O'Donovan had all the talent but didn't even make the Leinster 20's squad.

I'd take Hernan, Guinane and Hickey over last seasons backrow, this seasons front row is better than last aswell. Obviously Baird/Healy >> Fish/Woods.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby TrapperChamonix » March 7th, 2019, 3:54 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:O'Donovan had all the talent but didn't even make the Leinster 20's squad.

I'd take Hernan, Guinane and Hickey over last seasons backrow, this seasons front row is better than last aswell. Obviously Baird/Healy >> Fish/Woods.


The real difference year to year is Baird. He was colossal.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 7th, 2019, 3:58 pm

TrapperChamonix wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:O'Donovan had all the talent but didn't even make the Leinster 20's squad.

I'd take Hernan, Guinane and Hickey over last seasons backrow, this seasons front row is better than last aswell. Obviously Baird/Healy >> Fish/Woods.


The real difference year to year is Baird. He was colossal.


Yeah, it's amazing that neither he or Ryan won a cup. Though Baird was more effective in 6th year than Ryan.

looking forward to seeing Baird tomorrow night for the 20's.

It will be interesting to see how good Boyle, Barron, Hickey and Guinane are compared to him next season.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby backrower8 » March 7th, 2019, 4:52 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:O'Donovan had all the talent but didn't even make the Leinster 20's squad.

I'd take Hernan, Guinane and Hickey over last seasons backrow, this seasons front row is better than last aswell. Obviously Baird/Healy >> Fish/Woods.


Well, I would be really worried if you agreed with me. :wink:

Both of the back-rows are very good.

None of this year's back-row, 2 of whom I coached as young kids, have made the Leinster 20s either. We are talking about which SCT was/is better.

So Penny >> Hernan I presume and therefore you prefer the two 5th years from this year to the two 6th years last year? All have representative honours for U'18 & U'19 at SCT stage.

Booth and O'Donovan were much more powerful last year and punched a lot of holes which allowed the backline the space and time that hasn't been afforded to this year's version and why they don't flow as much as 2018. That will be less of an issue in the final as Zaga are a small pack.

O'Donovan's performances were a big feature of the 2018 competition, more so than Hickey this year who is v good but slighter, less flashy and a real all rounder. Indeed O'Donovan's early substitution (for 5th yr Hernan) on 54 mins last year when 19-3 up in the semi was seen as a major turning point leading to defeat and mainly why they are now avoiding using the bench.

Incredible that they produce two entirely different back rows of representative players in consecutive years and with the likes of Leavy, Murphy & Deegan a few years before that.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby backrower8 » March 7th, 2019, 4:55 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:It will be interesting to see how good Boyle, Barron, Hickey and Guinane are compared to him next season.


Guinane has the frame allied to the athleticism to develop the most out of that group and has made the most strides in his development in the last 2 years. He is appreciably bigger, deeper chested, than last year when he was on the fringes.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 7th, 2019, 4:57 pm

Guinane & Hickey both look like future academy players to me, same with Boyle & Barron.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby backrower8 » March 8th, 2019, 6:45 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Guinane & Hickey both look like future academy players to me, same with Boyle & Barron.


Is that Academy or Sub-Academy?

In addition to those 4, how many of the backs do you think will get contracts?
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 8th, 2019, 7:25 pm

backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Guinane & Hickey both look like future academy players to me, same with Boyle & Barron.


Is that Academy or Sub-Academy?

In addition to those 4, how many of the backs do you think will get contracts?


Academy. 2/3 backs maybe depends how they develop.

Obviously its a long way off so projecting here that they continue to develop as they have to date.
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby mildlyinterested » March 12th, 2019, 1:15 pm

JCT semi-final:

Newbridge College 7 Blackrock College 40

7th JCT final in a row
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Re: Schools Rugby 2018-19

Postby backrower8 » March 12th, 2019, 2:01 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Guinane & Hickey both look like future academy players to me, same with Boyle & Barron.


Is that Academy or Sub-Academy?

In addition to those 4, how many of the backs do you think will get contracts?


Academy. 2/3 backs maybe depends how they develop.

Obviously its a long way off so projecting here that they continue to develop as they have to date.


Would be delighted but doubt that 6/7 will come from one school in next two years.
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