Gap between schools and clubs

[jaybyrne]

d

[bunty85]

While I agree that the gap is shortning between the 2, I don't really believe underage club rugby could ever be to the same standard as schools. Schools have far more access to players. And while for Nass u16s its a great achievment to beat Clongowes JCT who would be u15s, there is an age gap there which is massive at that stage of playing. I know Barnhall are very good but from what I heard their game against Nure wasn't the full 15 from Nure, great achievment though everyone is saying they beat them well. And a lot of CBC and other Leinster Schools players play club rugby up to a certain age, but where they get their primary training is in school 3/4 times a week.

EDIT: My cousins on that Seapoint team, there was little or none of CBCs SCT playing. They're ineligable I believe and don't have a team at that age grade. Most of the guys they would have been playing would have been in 5th years from the many schools that feed into seapoint.

[Duff Paddy]

The gap between school and club rugby at youth level is disapearing quickly

recently naas u16s beat clongowes jct team 12-18 with the naas team containing mostly u15 players
also barnhall have beaten terenure sct this year as well as a seapoint team packed with cbc monkstown sct players on saturday

leinster u19s always seems to be packed with just schools player but that is change and looks set to keep on changin
g

I doubt the schools teams take those matches seriously - I mean if they hypothetically met in the cup, I think the likes of Clongowes would be much stronger.

[Dublinner]

I would agree the standard is still far higher in the schools but Jay is right. Clubs are producing a far better standard of player now, than they were ten years ago. The Leinster youth set up and Irish youth set up seems to be working among other things.
I might be wrong here, but I would say a good underage club player is far far more likely to keep playing rugby after school whereas a schools player is very unlikely to continue on playing. The club player has a natural affinity to his club and to his area. I know a player who was on the St Michaels SCT panel 4 years ago. He said not one guy on the panel of 32 or whatever is currently playing rugby.

[oh no where do we go!]

The gap between school and club rugby at youth level is disapearing quickly

recently naas u16s beat clongowes jct team 12-18 with the naas team containing mostly u15 players
also barnhall have beaten terenure sct this year as well as a seapoint team packed with cbc monkstown sct players on saturday

leinster u19s always seems to be packed with just schools player but that is change and looks set to keep on changin
g

in a cup game in donnybrook they wouldnt have a chance of beating one of the quality teams

its true that a lot of player drop out after sct, but its pressure cooker enviroment produces raw diamonds for future development

i dont think that the youths system is at that level just yet

[bluerugbyrules]

This is the most useful debate. All sides are partly correct. For information, I believe the Barnhall Seapoint game was a friendly, so any schools player is eligable. Also, it's usually dead easy to spot the SCT players as they usually don't own a pair of club shorts and wear their shorts with xxxxxxxx SCT on them.

I think that most TOP LEVEL schools teams would beat the best of the club sides but there would definitely be close gaames and some shocks ! The diferences are not due to the quality of training or facilities as I have heard mentioned. It is more to do with the amount of training and the lack of player turn-over. Clubs compete with GAA & soccer and many teenagers change several times between codes. Schools have the massive advantage of CONTINUITY in their squads. If clubs could achieve that level of continuity and get a steady team from the age of 12 they would do even better.
Most good club sides usually have around 5 exceptional players, 5 very good players and 5 average. TOP schools sides probably have around 1/2 exceptional players and 1/2 very good players with no average and that is another big difference.
Coaching in club sides varies enourmously. Naas, Wicklow, Barnhall, Dundalk etc would have excellent coaches and many of their players in development/representative sides have exactly the same coaches as the schools development / representative sides. Other club sides have really poor set-ups. Although I've heard some schools have big differences in standards of coaching.
perhaps, the winners of the leinster Schools Cup wil play the winners of the leinster Premier League (youths), which will be the winner of barnhall & Wicklow in Donnybrook tomorrow. That would be a great game.

[oh no where do we go!]

the winners of the leinster Schools Cup wil play the winners of the leinster Premier League (youths), which will be the winner of barnhall & Wicklow in Donnybrook tomorrow. That would be a great game.

cant happen and will never happen

the top schools sides lose their players to Ireland schools and U-19 almost straight after the cup.
A game betwen these respective winners, while settling a debate here would only really serve to increase the ppossibility for injury.

The true solution is a lot simpler to say and a lot more complicated to introduce.

I believe that all schools should play rugby as it is an excellent character builder and serves as a useful outlet for adolescent males to vent their excess energies while learning how to channel their 'primal' urges (said with tongue in cheek )

Then let every boy (and girl) at least have the opportunity to play the greatest field sport ever concieved.

What a national team we would have then !

[bunty85]

I dunno about that Seapoint friendly game everyone is on about. There may have been a few guys from the panel on the team but my cousin who's on the team is nowhere near his schools SCT, theres a couple of Andrews lads on it though.

Completely agree with the above poster. The IRFU should be spashling the cash in develpment and potential schools. Its the best way to make good players and builds a bit of character for people in their school as opposed to hating it. Clubs should still be seen as a way to make players and encourage schools to link with the clubs. I think Nass RC and some Nass school does this.

[jaybyrne]

Show Spoiler:

clongowes

won the junior cup

Show Spoiler:

36-0

naas beat them 12-8

the same naas team lost 34-3 to skerries this season.

a week later. Both sides had full teams out and clongowes did not play badly.

[bunty85]

How sure are you that it was Clongowes 1st team. The Barnhall/Nure match already proved to be a red haring in that it was a much weakened Nure side. I would believe you but when you quote that the same Naas team were hammered by Skerries that really makes me doubt it was Clongowes 1sts. Lets be realistic the winners of the JCT, and at a handsome margin at that, aren't going to be beaten by a club side which gets hammered themselves the next week. I know the club game is improving but the examples you've quoted jay make it look as though clubs are dominating the schools, which ain't true.

[oh no where do we go!]

if the club players were so good they would have been ushered into the schools, it always happens

[jaybyrne]

well skerries community college were in the junior cup quarters last year and have two players on the leinster schools side the naas side was also u16

[oh no where do we go!]

I have heard that they are a good side and that the seniors will be entering the senior league next season - will be interesting

[LCD_Blue]

just to confirm cwc played their seconds against naas. I think one or two of the subs from today played but it was nowhere near the first team.
Must also say what a team this cwc jct team is contains many class players

[BigBoi]

Here just to put a bit of pesrpective on the debate the standard of School Rugby is much better than club rugby due to training, coaching, numbers etc. Not due to talent. The makeup of the Leinster Squad backs that fact up. But there are certain clubs who would definetly put it up to the school sides. For example this Barnhall squad in their current would of beaten Gonzaga in the Vinnie Murray no doubt, simply by Clongowes style rugby. And would probably would beat the likes of Castleknock and even Michaels this year by playing this ugly 10 man rugby.

[oh no where do we go!]

Here just to put a bit of pesrpective on the debate the standard of School Rugby is much better than club rugby due to training, coaching, numbers etc. Not due to talent. The makeup of the Leinster Squad backs that fact up. But there are certain clubs who would definetly put it up to the school sides. For example this Barnhall squad in their current would of beaten Gonzaga in the Vinnie Murray no doubt, simply by Clongowes style rugby. And would probably would beat the likes of Castleknock and even Michaels this year by playing this ugly 8 man rugby.

its ugly 10 man rugby also known as Clongowes sct

[true blue 06]

Here just to put a bit of pesrpective on the debate the standard of School Rugby is much better than club rugby due to training, coaching, numbers etc. Not due to talent. The makeup of the Leinster Squad backs that fact up. But there are certain clubs who would definetly put it up to the school sides. For example this Barnhall squad in their current would of beaten Gonzaga in the Vinnie Murray no doubt, simply by Clongowes style rugby. And would probably would beat the likes of Castleknock and even Michaels this year by playing this ugly 8 man rugby.

its ugly 10 man rugby also known as Clongowes sct

its ugly alright but it doesn't seem to be working for them, haven't won the cup for 8 years i think

[skerrieslad]

just 2 say gap between schools and club rugby is massive 2 big
skerries u16 who are a skools rugby team plyed club last year nd hammerd every team nd now are in section b
sumin needs 2 b done abou it

[Mustapha]

Must....resist.....

[jis4john]

last years skerries under 16's proved the huge gap between schools and clubs walked through the leinster youths last year i think they won most match by over 15 points and the same team (although 5th and 4th years) has only won a few matchs this year in section b.Get the picture !!!!!!!!!!