'you wanta play football...

[PCASEY]

.. we'll play football, you wana box, we'll box'

different sport, quote still applies. no one is going to tell me that the intent to 99 the lions wasnt there yesterday from the start. Adam Jones - dislocated shoulder needing an operation to put it back in, potentially a career ending injury for a prop. I'm sorry, but they had the tallent to make a match of it, but they had to resort to street fighting thuggary to win it. Imagine the pride of burger botha et all in 20 years time telling their kids, yea we beat the lions, we only had to damm near blind one guy at the start of his career, and finish off another guys at the end. My god, those guys must feel so good about themsleves.

rant over, don't feel any better for it though.

[Oscar]

Botha's charge on Jones, for which he was cited;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FV7GDD--w

It was just bad luck that Botha caught him on the point of the shoulder and had had a bit of a run-up at it. You see that all the time in every game, but this one time Botha caught him in exactly the worst spot. Players get injured in perfectly normal rugby tackles every day; look at Quinlan in 2003. The judiciary got this one even more wrong than the Burger one. Burger should be gone for at least the 18 weeks Best got in the GP for a far less obviously intentional incident. Botha shouldn't have been cited at all.

The Boks were the better team and overall the Lions were lucky Brussouw didn't play all of both tests or it could have been 2005 all over again.

[youngco]

Im not sure if the botha incident was even too bad. like he hit fairly but it seemed to just where jones caught his arm that did the damage.....burger on the other hand was complete thuggery!

[Paudy]

Is that definitely the Botha incident?

If so, I'd agree that it was fair game. However, Botha deserves that bad luck to be cited on account of being such a complete disgrace of a sportsman on the field for both tests.

I would also agree that Burger warranted a ban at least twice the length of that given to Quinlan for his reckless unsportsmanlike conduct in the first minute, it's so blatantly obvious given Burger's prior record and the South African philosophy in general that he intended to lay down marker, he intended to hurt someone, sure he should have got a sin binning later in the game too, he's just an absolutely filthy disgusting cheat and I hope the next time the citing comissioner and referee aren't so spineless and he gets what he deserves, it makes me sick that he makes money for being such a filthy disgusting piece of white trash.

I would go as far as to say I'd be glad to see him break his arm or encounter some injury that sidelines him for 16-18 weeks in his next match. It's just amazing after all that controversy with Lions 2005 that an example wasn't made of players committing these kind of offences such as Burger in this case.

[Munsterboy]

Botha's charge on Jones, for which he was cited;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FV7GDD--w

It was just bad luck that Botha caught him on the point of the shoulder and had had a bit of a run-up at it. You see that all the time in every game, but this one time Botha caught him in exactly the worst spot. Players get injured in perfectly normal rugby tackles every day; look at Quinlan in 2003. The judiciary got this one even more wrong than the Burger one. Burger should be gone for at least the 18 weeks Best got in the GP for a far less obviously intentional incident. Botha shouldn't have been cited at all.

The Boks were the better team and overall the Lions were lucky Brussouw didn't play all of both tests or it could have been 2005 all over again.

Nothing wrong with that. Might not be to the letter of the law but a shoulder on shoulder hit like that to clear a man out is ok imo.

Burger's ban is a disgrace.

[gleesonisgod]

Botha's charge on Jones, for which he was cited;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5FV7GDD--w

It was just bad luck that Botha caught him on the point of the shoulder and had had a bit of a run-up at it. You see that all the time in every game, but this one time Botha caught him in exactly the worst spot. Players get injured in perfectly normal rugby tackles every day; look at Quinlan in 2003. The judiciary got this one even more wrong than the Burger one. Burger should be gone for at least the 18 weeks Best got in the GP for a far less obviously intentional incident. Botha shouldn't have been cited at all.

The Boks were the better team and overall the Lions were lucky Brussouw didn't play all of both tests or it could have been 2005 all over again.

I think it's was fantastic counter rucking! Citing and ban are both unwarranted. Burger on the other hand is filth and I can't believe he got away with only 8 weeks. Most blatant gouge I've seen in years.

[hugonaut]

Yep, can't see much wrong with Botha's incident at all. Obviously he's a spectacular knob on the pitch, but what you see is what you get with him, and in this case he actually makes the effort to adjust the angle of his run so that he comes in through the gate.

It's unfortunate that Adam Jones was so badly injured [as he has played well on this tour and improved with every game], but it's just a great bit of counter-rucking. He's over the ball, in the middle of the ruck and Botha hits him shoulder to shoulder – if the beef is that Botha didn't bind on him, or wasn't bound to another player, or left his feet, it's more of a technicality, despite the result. Maybe a penalty on the spot, but not a ban.

Still, f*ck him, he's a big ignorant pr¡ck. Probably deserves censure for the rest of his d¡cking around over the two tests so far.

[tones]

Don't see much wrong with the Botha incident, but PDV's defence on Burger is pathetic, and the SA Rugby Union seem to think likewise as they have issued an apology. PDV might be in a bit of hot water as well.

[ronk]

Yep, can't see much wrong with Botha's incident at all. Obviously he's a spectacular knob on the pitch, but what you see is what you get with him, and in this case he actually makes the effort to adjust the angle of his run so that he comes in through the gate.

It's unfortunate that Adam Jones was so badly injured [as he has played well on this tour and improved with every game], but it's just a great bit of counter-rucking. He's over the ball, in the middle of the ruck and Botha hits him shoulder to shoulder – if the beef is that Botha didn't bind on him, or wasn't bound to another player, or left his feet, it's more of a technicality, despite the result. Maybe a penalty on the spot, but not a ban.

Still, f*ck him, he's a big ignorant pr¡ck. Probably deserves censure for the rest of his d¡cking around over the two tests so far.

It was a shoulder charge and his intent was only to do damage not to drive over the ball. The severity was accidental but he'd been at it all match. He flew into it and came in sideways and downways. It was a cheap shot and I don't think he has any complaints over his sanction. The nature of the injury and his general wanton recklessness contributed to the citing.

Anyone notice that de Villiers is defending Burger but not Botha?

[fourthirtythree]

Anyone notice that de Villiers is defending Burger but not Botha?

From the Irish Times
"Springboks coach Pieter de Villiers added: “My comments (after the game) on Saturday were based on what I know of Schalk Burger as a player, and not on what occurred.

“It was never my intention to suggest that I condone foul play. That is the last thing I would ever do, and I apologise for creating any other impression.”

Fair enough from deV. He should have known better but the instinct to defend ones player without the facts is one we all share. Once you see the incident properly it's time to recant.

[hugonaut]

Still, f*ck him, he's a big ignorant pr¡ck. Probably deserves censure for the rest of his d¡cking around over the two tests so far.

The nature of the injury and his general wanton recklessness contributed to the citing.

We said the same thing – only you said it like a grown-up ...

[Donny B.]

Anyone notice that de Villiers is defending Burger but not Botha?

From the Irish Times
"Springboks coach Pieter de Villiers added: “My comments (after the game) on Saturday were based on what I know of Schalk Burger as a player, and not on what occurred.

“It was never my intention to suggest that I condone foul play. That is the last thing I would ever do, and I apologise for creating any other impression.”

Fair enough from deV. He should have known better but the instinct to defend ones player without the facts is one we all share. Once you see the incident properly it's time to recant.

Nah, he had his opportunity to recant the day after the match and he still insisted it wasn't even a card. He then gave a bizarre press conference still defending Burger. Clearly embarassed by this the SARFU dragged him into a meeting and suddenly he's changed his tack. He's f**king moron and a disgrace to the game.