WTF is going on in Scotland????

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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Sea_point » May 13th, 2011, 12:30 pm

Armchair wrote:
brummie-leinster-man wrote:Seriously, I dont follow puffball whatsoever so I'm really clueless about Neil Lennon.

What has he done?
A lot of it goesback to his playing days when he was threatened with death to both him and his family if he played for Northern Ireland, he stopped playing for them and he then transfered from Leicester to Celtic which didn't go down well with his enemies and has moved on to become manager of Celtic but he hasn't really helped himself as he is no shrinking violet either and gives plenty of guff as well, the McCoist incident and the gestures to the Rangers fans come to mind. Football in Scotland is very very secretarian and both sides are as bad as each other in that regard but the sending of parcel bombs and bullets in the mail take it to a whole new level. "Sport" as they call it was never supposed to be like this!!!


A lot of this is actually driven by the Irish element in both set of supporters though, for a lot of locals it's just the standard same city rivalry (there are locals on both sides who do get caught up in the sectarian element though). The current Lennon situation is being driven out of the North, not Scotland that's for sure...

Basically they are both second/third rate clubs in a third rate two horse league They'll never be allowed in the Premier League so all they have is hating each other, and it's frankly embarrasing that Irish people travel over to suport either of these two rancid clubs (as it is with those heading over every week to Anfield, Old Trafford and dozens of other UK teams).

To me they should be supporting their domestic league first and foremost...
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby berniemac67 » May 13th, 2011, 12:37 pm

Sea_point wrote:Basically they are both second/third rate clubs in a third rate two horse league They'll never be allowed in the Premier League so all they have is hating each other, and it's frankly embarrasing that Irish people travel over to suport either of these two rancid clubs (as it is with those heading over every week to Anfield, Old Trafford and dozens of other UK teams).

To me they should be supporting their domestic league first and foremost...


:clap: :clap:
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Sauvignon Blank » May 13th, 2011, 12:50 pm

brummie-leinster-man wrote:
Sauvignon Blank wrote:
You see, Mr Lennon is affectionately known as a 'wee taig'. A derogatory term for a Northern Irish Catholic. The little ginger fella had the temerity to play for Northern Ireland but actually would have preferred to play for his country 'Ireland', not some manufactured little statelets' team, whose following/supporters (ahem) are sectarian. This didn't go down well with the orange bigots supporting Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown and in particular Rangers. It is important to them that no 'wee-Taig' rise above his station or entertain delusions of grandeur. Hence the 'Hang-Mans' noose graffiti around the Lisburn area at the time (his home). His father spoke of how he'd be driving to and from the town and work daily to see this graffiti about his son everywhere.
Not a nice thing to endure.

Now, other notable catholics have played for the North but have not attracted the same attention e.g Martin O'Neill and Pat Jennings. The reason for this is a moot point but essentially boils down to the fact already mentioned on this thread that Neil Lennon unlike the aforementioned is no shrinking voilet, no passive 'wee taig', and will stand up for himself, his religion, beliefs and community. He makes no apologies for being a Northern Catholic who had aspirations to play for Ireland and Celtic. You see, he's a bit too 'Feniany' for some unfortunately. Incurring the wrath of orange/loyalist bigots usually means bullets in the post, an almost weekly occurrence for Celtic Fc players from the North. McCourt gets them regularly.

In my opinion he should not be walking out to the centre circle at Ibrox and applauding his fans, then cup his ears to the Rangers Fans, but then again a certain Glaswegian who played at Ibrox has been doing this for years, and recieved a knighthood for his endeavours.
There is sectarianism on both sides of the community , infesting more than 2 teams in Scotland, no question. But to say it is in equal measure is wildly inaccurate and downright ignorant.

Rangers and Hearts players don't recieve bullets and parcel bombs in their daily mail. Their players children don't require Police protection.


Thanks for this, it's quite a clear summary. Its actually made me respect the guy quite a lot! I cant help but think fair play to him. He's got b*%&!cks I'll give him that much!



That is why the Celtic Fans treat him with reverence, why they sing and cheer him at every opportunity, to show him they respect the little fella for refusing to bow down and be beaten by the sectarianism and bigotry he's been railing against since his days in the North.

Watch his face as he's walking off the pitch after the final whistle against Hearts. He's clearly at breaking point and I think Celtic may make a decision for him in the summer.

How systematic and endemic is this campaign when you see a prominent QC and Politician who support Celtic recieving parcel bombs ?

For decades the Celtic supporters were laughed at (still are) by those who sought to explain their grievances and opinions as a bad case of paranoia.

Are those people laughing now?
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby brummie-leinster-man » May 13th, 2011, 2:56 pm

Its a sad state of affairs. Same as the Man U / Liverpool stuff you mention in the other thread. I just cant get my head around why it gets so bad. It really puts me off puffball, more than the hairdo's and constant diving and whining :P
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Sauvignon Blank » May 13th, 2011, 3:34 pm

Sea_point wrote:
A lot of this is actually driven by the Irish element in both set of supporters though, for a lot of locals it's just the standard same city rivalry (there are locals on both sides who do get caught up in the sectarian element though). The current Lennon situation is being driven out of the North, not Scotland that's for sure...


Incredible to think you actually believe this to be fact.

Seapoint wrote:Basically they are both second/third rate clubs in a third rate two horse league They'll never be allowed in the Premier League so all they have is hating each other,


Exactly what their prowess on a football field has to do with anything along with not being 'allowed in the premier league' has to do with all this is baffling. Celtic are not interested in joining the premier league.

Most of the fans on both sides work and socialise with each other but on Old Firm day a sinister cloud descends on Glasgow and all reason and rationale is temporarily suspended unfortunately. There is a bit more to it than simply 'hating each other'.


Seapoint wrote: and it's frankly embarrasing that Irish people travel over to suport either of these two rancid clubs (as it is with those heading over every week to Anfield, Old Trafford and dozens of other UK teams).


And yet conversly, you never felt that Irishmen crossing the very same sea to go and fight or 'support' Britain in the World War was embarrassing?
Double standards Seapoint :?
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Sauvignon Blank » May 13th, 2011, 3:36 pm

brummie-leinster-man wrote:Its a sad state of affairs. Same as the Man U / Liverpool stuff you mention in the other thread. I just cant get my head around why it gets so bad. It really puts me off puffball, more than the hairdo's and constant diving and whining :P



Agreed.
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Sea_point » May 13th, 2011, 3:47 pm

Sauvignon Blank wrote:
Seapoint wrote: and it's frankly embarrasing that Irish people travel over to suport either of these two rancid clubs (as it is with those heading over every week to Anfield, Old Trafford and dozens of other UK teams).


And yet conversly, you never felt that Irishmen crossing the very same sea to go and fight or 'support' Britain in the World War was embarrassing?
Double standards Seapoint :?


Oh sweet Jesus, we've heard it all now folks.... :o

It's offcial, buying a season ticket at Old Trafford is the same as picking up a Lee Enfield and fighting to stop Nazi Germany conquering Europe in the world of SV..... :lol:
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Hornet » May 13th, 2011, 3:52 pm

Sea_point wrote:
Sauvignon Blank wrote:
Seapoint wrote: and it's frankly embarrasing that Irish people travel over to suport either of these two rancid clubs (as it is with those heading over every week to Anfield, Old Trafford and dozens of other UK teams).


And yet conversly, you never felt that Irishmen crossing the very same sea to go and fight or 'support' Britain in the World War was embarrassing?
Double standards Seapoint :?


Oh sweet Jesus, we've heard it all now folks.... :o

It's offcial, buying a season ticket at Old Trafford is the same as picking up a Lee Enfield and fighting to stop Nazi Germany conquering Europe in the world of SV..... :lol:

I smell Godwin's Law!
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby berniemac67 » May 13th, 2011, 3:56 pm

Hornet wrote:I smell Godwin's Law!


should be extended to include derogatory comments about the aviva stadium on this forum
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Sauvignon Blank » May 13th, 2011, 4:02 pm

Sea_point wrote:
Sauvignon Blank wrote:
Seapoint wrote: and it's frankly embarrasing that Irish people travel over to suport either of these two rancid clubs (as it is with those heading over every week to Anfield, Old Trafford and dozens of other UK teams).


And yet conversly, you never felt that Irishmen crossing the very same sea to go and fight or 'support' Britain in the World War was embarrassing?
Double standards Seapoint :?


Oh sweet Jesus, we've heard it all now folks.... :o

It's offcial, buying a season ticket at Old Trafford is the same as picking up a Lee Enfield and fighting to stop Nazi Germany conquering Europe in the world of SV..... :lol:



So to reiterate, you believe Irishmen alongside Harry Enfields grandfather, going to fight and kill for a foreign country in a War that didn't concern them should be lauded yet Irishmen going to drink, sing and cheer on a football team in the UK should be..erm.... 'Frankly embarrassed' :lol: :lol:

Mate, GTF.

Rank hypocrysy.
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Sea_point » May 13th, 2011, 4:26 pm

Sauvignon Blank wrote:
Sea_point wrote:
Sauvignon Blank wrote:quote="Seapoint"
and it's frankly embarrasing that Irish people travel over to suport either of these two rancid clubs (as it is with those heading over every week to Anfield, Old Trafford and dozens of other UK teams).
/quote

And yet conversly, you never felt that Irishmen crossing the very same sea to go and fight or 'support' Britain in the World War was embarrassing?
Double standards Seapoint :?


Oh sweet Jesus, we've heard it all now folks.... :o

It's offcial, buying a season ticket at Old Trafford is the same as picking up a Lee Enfield and fighting to stop Nazi Germany conquering Europe in the world of SV..... :lol:



So to reiterate, you believe Irishmen alongside Harry Enfields grandfather, going to fight and kill for a foreign country in a War that didn't concern them should be lauded yet Irishmen going to drink, sing and cheer on a football team in the UK should be..erm.... 'Frankly embarrassed' :lol: :lol:

Mate, GTF.

Rank hypocrysy.


Good luck with that argument fella, you're own your own there...

Next you'll be telling us that Auschwitz and Treblinka were just British Imperialistic propaganda...:lol: :lol:
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Logorrhea » May 13th, 2011, 4:45 pm

Did he just compare going to war to going to a football match?
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby berniemac67 » May 13th, 2011, 4:47 pm

Logorrhea wrote:Did he just compare going to war to going to a football match?


he compared going to war to going to watch a football match

:shock:
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Peg Leg » May 13th, 2011, 11:38 pm

berniemac67 wrote:
Logorrhea wrote:Did he just compare going to war to going to a football match?


he compared going to war to going to watch a football match

:shock:

Neil Lennon might take See the comparison!
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby kermischocolate » May 13th, 2011, 11:49 pm

West Brit wrote:The entire soccer-watching community of Scotland are scum?


Living in Glasgow I can say pretty much, yeah. Especially when it comes to the Old Firm.

The way football supporters in general act before, during and after games is generally embarrassing anyway never mind all the Sectarian nonsense that goes on over here.
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby sarah_lennon » May 19th, 2011, 2:34 pm

brummie-leinster-man wrote:Why do so many people want Neil Lennon dead?


He's a ginger!
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby brummie-leinster-man » May 19th, 2011, 3:17 pm

sarah_lennon wrote:
brummie-leinster-man wrote:Why do so many people want Neil Lennon dead?


He's a ginger!


:lol: :lol:
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby All the way back logue » May 24th, 2011, 2:53 pm

Anton Rogan would have gone through something similar - catholic, born in Belfast playing for Celtic booed as he came on for his home international debut for Norn Iron in Windsor Park.

And Peter Lovenkrands who used to play for Rangers- during a Rep of Irel v Denmark fixture Irish supporters booed the wrong player. Substitute Peter Madsen was mistakenly announced as Lovenkrands over the stadium PA system and his every touch was loudly booed. Mick McCarthy sent a message to correct the error and appeal for calm but then, when Lovenkrands did actually come on, he was singled out for jeers. The idea of Irish fans booing a Danish player because he plays in glasgow is too funny - whatever about booing the wrong guy!
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby Broken Wing » May 24th, 2011, 2:57 pm

It would make me smile if Rangers signed Robbie Keane over the summer.
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Re: WTF is going on in Scotland????

Postby lineens weegie army » May 25th, 2011, 12:12 pm

Broken Wing wrote:He's a Catholic from Norn Iron in charge of the Queen's Celtic. That's probably enough for some nutters.


Baws - it's because he is an arsehole. Neither his religion nor his nationality come into it.

This whole season, he has blamed everybody and everything for Celtic defeats except himself or his players, he has driven 2 officials out of the game, almost singlehandedly made the referee's go on strike (therby making him hated by fans of the 30 SFL clubs who had games cancelled and lost out financially - many of whom don't give a f*ck about the Old firm), Had nothing but praise for his own clubs fans - even when they are chanting "PIRA", which he sees nothing wrong with, and is alledged to have racially abused Rangers players. And thats just the ones I can remember right now (there are a lot more - some have already been mentioned)

I know a few people that have met him in the west end, and say the guy just acts like a twat. Infact, one Aberdeen fan's (Aberdeen hate Rangers far more than Celtic, for whom their rivalry is mainly sporting) comment was "It's clear to see why he was assulted in Ashton Lane a few years ago". Oh yeah, and I also know several Celtic fans who have told me on more than one occassion this season that they are "embarrased he is managing their club".

Of course, none of that makes it acceptable to send him mail bombs, but to suggest it is all because he is an Irish catholic is just plain wrong. Afterall, if that was the reason, why do most Rangers fans have nothing but respect for Martin O'Neil? Would it perhaps be because he behaved like the decent man he is?

Sauvignon Blank wrote:You see, Mr Lennon is affectionately known as a 'wee taig'. A derogatory term for a Northern Irish Catholic. The little ginger fella had the temerity to play for Northern Ireland but actually would have preferred to play for his country 'Ireland', not some manufactured little statelets' team, whose following/supporters (ahem) are sectarian. This didn't go down well with the orange bigots supporting Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown and in particular Rangers. It is important to them that no 'wee-Taig' rise above his station or entertain delusions of grandeur. Hence the 'Hang-Mans' noose graffiti around the Lisburn area at the time (his home). His father spoke of how he'd be driving to and from the town and work daily to see this graffiti about his son everywhere.
Not a nice thing to endure.

Now, other notable catholics have played for the North but have not attracted the same attention e.g Martin O'Neill and Pat Jennings. The reason for this is a moot point but essentially boils down to the fact already mentioned on this thread that Neil Lennon unlike the aforementioned is no shrinking voilet, no passive 'wee taig', and will stand up for himself, his religion, beliefs and community. He makes no apologies for being a Northern Catholic who had aspirations to play for Ireland and Celtic. You see, he's a bit too 'Feniany' for some unfortunately. Incurring the wrath of orange/loyalist bigots usually means bullets in the post, an almost weekly occurrence for Celtic Fc players from the North. McCourt gets them regularly.

In my opinion he should not be walking out to the centre circle at Ibrox and applauding his fans, then cup his ears to the Rangers Fans, but then again a certain Glaswegian who played at Ibrox has been doing this for years, and recieved a knighthood for his endeavours.
There is sectarianism on both sides of the community , infesting more than 2 teams in Scotland, no question. But to say it is in equal measure is wildly inaccurate and downright ignorant.

Rangers and Hearts players don't recieve bullets and parcel bombs in their daily mail. Their players children don't require Police protection.


I actually burst out laughing at the bit in bold!

The catholic club you are thinking of there is hibs - Celtic are every bit as bad as Rangers and Hearts. The Hearts v Celtic game a few weeks ago (which I think is what started this thread?) was awful, but Celtic were just as bad as the home fans - Chanting "Oh, ah up the 'ra" as the teams walked out isn't a great way to start, and they continued to chant support for terrorist organisations throught the game, before responding to the Lennon/fan incident by hurling coins at ballboys and putting 5 stewards in hospital. Strangely, that was never headline news even over here though...

As for Rangers players not recieving bullets - Fernado Ricksen did, and other players have recieved death threats, whilst one (can't remember who, of the top of my head) was assulted on the pitch by a Celtic fan. And you are trying to tell me it's only Rangers and Hearts with a problem?

Celtic are the ones with the real problem - they can't admit they have one! At least Rangers recognise the issue and have made a half-hearted attempt to stamp it out. There was a BBC program last week that had some telling stats on it - over the last 6 seasons, Rangers have banned around 70 people per season for sectarian singing. Celtic have banned 1 per season.

kermischocolate wrote:
West Brit wrote:The entire soccer-watching community of Scotland are scum?


Living in Glasgow I can say pretty much, yeah. Especially when it comes to the Old Firm.

The way football supporters in general act before, during and after games is generally embarrassing anyway never mind all the Sectarian nonsense that goes on over here.


I disagree entirely!

Yes, alot of OF supporters are arseholes - but there are also a lot of decent guys who just want to support the team their fathers supported, and who don't partake in the sectarian crap. Unfortunatly they are pretty much lost in the crowd at Ibrox/Parkhead, but they make up the vast majority at most football grounds around the country every week, and indeed almost the entire Scotland support at Hampden. Yes you see some people who have had a bit too much to drink - but nothing that I haven't seen at rugby before now either...




Final thought on the subject: Whilst there is undoubtably serious problems in Scottish football (particularly the 4 'religious' clubs), it isn't going to change any time soon for one simple reason - the OF don't want it to change.

If you take away the sectarian crap, what is left of Scottish football? It's only reedeming feature right now is that it boasts one of the fiercest derbies in the world, and that makes it appealing to Sky. Take that derby away (by removing the sectarian crap, it becomes just like any other derby), and Sky wont be interested in the rights, and no-one outside of Scotland will give a feck about our league. If thats what it takes, then IMO that unfortunate, but we need to do it anyway. But the OF aren't going to vote for it, and the OF pretty much run Scottish football :(

If proper penalties were implemented (ground closures and points deductions), the problem could be gone in a season.
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