RWC 2023: Ireland

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RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » October 27th, 2011, 11:38 am

We've just seen a very enjoyable tournament held in an excellent fashion by a small country in an isolated part of the world. In my opinion we should realistically stick our hat in the ring for 2023, I can really only see positives here:

- tourism
- sport (yes all the main field sports)
- infrastructure
- job creation
- marketing of Ireland Inc.

We have the transport infrastructure with five international airports on the island, decent regional ones, a developing light & heavy rail network, not to mention intercity motorways meaning most of the island is only two to three hours from Dublin. There are also plenty of hotels/holiday homes etc to house tourists (a problem in NZ), there's a favourable liscencing environment for bars etc to take care of visitors. We are also in the prime location timewise for hosting/broadcasting of games for the rugby world, meaning a very marketable event is possible which means £$€ to the IRB.

All the field sports could benefit if existing infrastructure is upgraded where required. We'll need about ten stadia maybe twelve to host the tournament. We already have five stadia in Dublin which can and have hosted International or "A" International games. I'll take Donnybrook off the list as it'd need a major investment over at the Tennis court side so that leaves four. Tallaght would be great for minnow games, the RDS with a little investment to push up to 30k again perfect size for some games and then obviously Lansdowne RD and Croker to be rented (as we know it is still available).

Oustide of Dublin well Thomund is obviously in a position to hold games, Musgrave park could hold minnow games, Ravenhill again could hold games as could Windsor Park I guess with a little development money and I'm sure the UK government would throw funding in there. Hell they might even find cash to develop/re-develop something in Derry so the North-West could get a taste of the competition.

So now to fill in the gaps well the first and most obvious port of call is the GAA. They have the stadia network which could hold the events eg Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, Parc Ui Caoimhe Cork, Semple Thurles etc. now I'm not saying that they would be agreeable but if re-development money was offered to them to make those staida top of the art and the down side is they have to host a couple of group stage games well even GAA diehards would find it hard to argue against given the lasting legacy it would give them. And as for the arguement that GAA pitches are too big well I for one enjoyed most of the Croker games and it's nothing like having the pitch in the middle of an oval pitch Aussie rules stadium (e.g. 2003 RWC, or Auckland cake tin).

Options for development of new grounds would be municipal stadia for Cork (of circa 35-50k) to cater for all sports and built in the unused docks where brownfield sites are cheap at the mo and it could spur on a re-generation of that part of the city. Galway again could possibly cater for a stadium of circa 20-25k which could be used by all sports so Connaught/Galway Utd and possibly the footballers/hurlers.

Finally lets not leave the regional towns or the midlands out, regional stadiums built in population centres like Waterford, Athlone or Portlaois (not saying all those three but possibly two) of circa 30k which would cater for all sports could help any town it's built in by allowing for inter-pros to be held there between Leinster v Connaught/Munster, championship GAA so say Dublin v Kerry in a neutral venue etc. Point is like in the move from 1st Division soccer to Premiership circa 1992 if you build and develop modern stadia people will attend events there as families.

Developing/Re-developing stadia is the large capital cost which would face any bid but construction and land costs are down at the moment not to mention there are plenty of people with construction experience looking for work. So between the potentially low costs and the saving made on FAS/Dole etc now could be ideal.

I also believe the country needs a shot in the arm and frankly we're a sport mad nation so investing in sport is the best way to do it a plan to bring the RWC to Ireland would be a goal that could help lift the country out of the gloom of the recession, growth is returning to the economy by putting investment into something very tangible like the RWC it could push it on a notch and bring the country together as we build for the event which could showcase the best of what we have to offer the world.

Also a minor point but RWC 2023 will occur just after we reach our 100th birthday as a nation!
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Broken Wing » October 27th, 2011, 11:59 am

If the agreement by the tier 1 nations to play midweek games is acted on in 2015 and 2019 then there should be less weekend games so there would not be a need for as many venues. Croker, Lansdowne, RDS, Thomond, Musgrave, Ravenhill and the Showgrounds might even be enough.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » October 27th, 2011, 12:26 pm

Broken Wing wrote:If the agreement by the tier 1 nations to play midweek games is acted on in 2015 and 2019 then there should be less weekend games so there would not be a need for as many venues. Croker, Lansdowne, RDS, Thomond, Musgrave, Ravenhill and the Showgrounds might even be enough.


Very interesting indeed. I'd still like to see some of the other venues like Tallaght used and maybe for rugby to break new ground in Derry/Waterford/Athlone etc just to ensure that the games get a good geographical spread.

Also it would be great if development / re-development where appropiate could be tied in allowing for a sporting infrastructure legacy that'd serve the country well. I'd say a few Munster fans wouldn't mind having us down to a 35-50k Cork municipal stadium or having a few heino knock out games there. As as above I'm sure it'd be great for GAA as well to get a few sponds to bring some more venues into the 21st Century.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby mikerob » October 27th, 2011, 12:39 pm

After 2019 in Japan, I can see the IRB going back to one of established countries, most likely S Africa, possibly Australia.

For 2027, they may try a developing country again. The IRB would love it if the USA, or possibly USA + Canada, could put in a viable bid for the RWC.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Twist » October 27th, 2011, 12:48 pm

I put forward this very idea a few weeks ago on Leinster Addicts. I think it's worth the investment. Unlike, say, post Olympics China, all those redeveloped stadia would get plenty of use here. There isn't even much need for improvement to most big GAA grounds.

NZ v Aus in Thurles - love it! I think the country would really enjoy hosting it too, once we ignore all the people who preface every sentence with "this country is a joke (insert poorly informed whinge here)". We've got the roads, rail, wifi, hotels and a welcoming population. We are in a convenient location time-wise for the big English, French & SA markets. The sport is well known with room to grow.

Remember, there's v little action in the big GAA grounds in October. I'm a fully paid-up GAA member and would love this
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Logorrhea » October 27th, 2011, 3:27 pm

Could possibly do it with Scotland but you'd assume the Welsh would insist on hosting their own games of course.

It wouldnt be a world cup if they didnt play all their matches in the Millenium stadium.

Would love to see the country show a bit of ambition to host it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby West Brit » October 27th, 2011, 3:30 pm

Logorrhea wrote:Could possibly do it with Scotland but you'd assume the Welsh would insist on hosting their own games of course.

Why should we bring either of them into it? Let them host their own if they want it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Broken Wing » October 27th, 2011, 3:40 pm

Wales, athough not hosting it, are hoping to play their RWC2015 games in Cardiff. Millennium stadium was one of the 12 proposed venues revealed after the IRB announced that England would host it.

BBC in May 2011 wrote:Millennium Stadium in Cardiff has been confirmed as a venue for the 2015 Rugby World Cup.

England were confirmed as tournament hosts two years ago and the 74,500-seat stadium in the Welsh capital has now been approved by the International Rugby Board.

"I am so pleased that thousands of Welsh rugby fans will now be able to claim real involvement in this great competition," said Wales Rugby Union chairman David Pickering.

The Rugby Football Union, governing body of the sport in England, will confirm the rest of the competition's stadia next year, but Wales is the only nation outside of the host country that will hold matches.


Assuming the IRB keeps flipping back and forth between NH and SH then unless the USA or Canada push for 2023 it'll be Europe and with England (and Wales) and France having hosted the previous two Ireland and Italy should be the leading candidates. There's undoubtedly a list of reasons why it couldn't be done but with 12 years to sort it I really think it could and see no reason not to try for it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » October 27th, 2011, 4:02 pm

Broken Wing wrote:There's undoubtedly a list of reasons why it couldn't be done


See that's what I was thinking, we'd have the usual crowd ringing up Joe asking how many hospital beds this would cost, how many shcool children are in class in a portakabin etc. etc. but I'd argue that it'd bring in a shed load of jobs in areas that are suffering now at very little cost to the exchequor in relative terms (relative to public sector pensions, running RTÉ for a year, a tribunal, and it's dwarfed by bank bailouts), and give an unreal buzz to the country.

It's also the one major international sporting event that we could actually pull off in some as realistically a very select group of large countries can afford the Olympics (that said Greece were able to get that organised in 2004), and there's a hell of a cost associated in developing suitable grounds & required security for any football tournament (on top of which lets face facts a rugby crowd while usually drunker is normally more behaved and better guests/tourists I guess proven over years of six nations games).
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Broken Wing » October 27th, 2011, 4:37 pm

If Leinster travelling to Limerick is worth €10m to the local economy then hosting RWC2023 would clear the national debt and save the pub industry at the same time.

A quick google of RWC 2023 brings back Argentina and Russia as chasing it. An Irish bid should easily move ahead of both of those.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby cormac » October 27th, 2011, 8:23 pm

Broken Wing wrote:If Leinster travelling to Limerick is worth €10m to the local economy then hosting RWC2023 would clear the national debt and save the pub industry at the same time.

A quick google of RWC 2023 brings back Argentina and Russia as chasing it. An Irish bid should easily move ahead of both of those.


Yes, an Irish bid would easily outstrip the hosts of FIFA World Cup 2018.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby ellandleinster » October 27th, 2011, 9:09 pm

Ireland will never stage the World Cup on its own. IRFU lack the ambition and imagination. ( as well as the stadia)
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 28th, 2011, 12:02 am

Thought this was going to be about the team we're going to have! :lol:

For what it's worth....

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9. McGrath (c).....no pressure!
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby suisse » October 28th, 2011, 5:27 am

TerenureJim wrote:frankly we're a sport mad nation


Not a strong enough argument though, surely most recognised world nations are "sporting mad"?

I like your theory but I live in a country that is almost haunted by the demons of the 2002 Football World Cup. Those demons are 40,000+ beautiful and modern sporting arenas dominating city skies across the country. They are largely empty now and many have been partly transformed into huge shopping centres or malls. On a match day, you find more people queueing to pay for the groceries than queueing to buy a ticket. The city of Gwangju, where Korea beat Spain in the QFs (should have been Ireland) has a 42,000 seater. It is absolutely stunning. Their average league attendance is less than 4,000.

Attendances at GAA games appear to be falling (I have no link to prove this, only from reading newspaper reports over the summer) so I would be wary of greatly upgrading existing facilities when they might be left idle once the rugby world cup is over. We also only have 3.5 professional (professionally run) teams and that's a lot of stadiums for one tournement.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Broken Wing » October 28th, 2011, 9:57 am

cormac wrote:
Broken Wing wrote:If Leinster travelling to Limerick is worth €10m to the local economy then hosting RWC2023 would clear the national debt and save the pub industry at the same time.

A quick google of RWC 2023 brings back Argentina and Russia as chasing it. An Irish bid should easily move ahead of both of those.


Yes, an Irish bid would easily outstrip the hosts of FIFA World Cup 2018.

Relevance? Russia only made their first world cup this year. In my opinion they'd have to be way down the pecking order as hosts. With 2019 in Japan the IRB may well be reluctant to have 2023 in another development nation.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Degz » October 28th, 2011, 10:11 am

I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that italy will be awarded the 2023 world cup, and I, for one, cannot farking wait to get over there for it.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Broken Wing » October 28th, 2011, 10:13 am

If the IRFU don't bid for it then I really hope that Italy get it.

It would clash with the Serie A so they'd have to sort venues but I'm sure they could do so.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby West Brit » October 28th, 2011, 10:18 am

Broken Wing wrote:If the IRFU don't bid for it then I really hope that Italy get it.

It would clash with the Serie A so they'd have to sort venues but I'm sure they could do so.

With Wales playing in the Millenium Stadium I assume?
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby TerenureJim » October 28th, 2011, 10:25 am

suisse wrote:
TerenureJim wrote:frankly we're a sport mad nation


Not a strong enough argument though, surely most recognised world nations are "sporting mad"?

I like your theory but I live in a country that is almost haunted by the demons of the 2002 Football World Cup. Those demons are 40,000+ beautiful and modern sporting arenas dominating city skies across the country. They are largely empty now and many have been partly transformed into huge shopping centres or malls. On a match day, you find more people queueing to pay for the groceries than queueing to buy a ticket. The city of Gwangju, where Korea beat Spain in the QFs (should have been Ireland) has a 42,000 seater. It is absolutely stunning. Their average league attendance is less than 4,000.

Attendances at GAA games appear to be falling (I have no link to prove this, only from reading newspaper reports over the summer) so I would be wary of greatly upgrading existing facilities when they might be left idle once the rugby world cup is over. We also only have 3.5 professional (professionally run) teams and that's a lot of stadiums for one tournement.


I'm going out on a limb here but culturally I would understand sport to play a far higher role in Irish life than it does in Korean society. We have a population of about 10% the size of South Korea yet you regurally see Pro 12 attendances in the 10k - 20k bracket, Airtricity League would seem to have 2-4k average attendances (terrible facilities) and GAA would have attendances on average I'm guessing of circa 20k (again in usually poor facilities). If you invest in modern stadia more people attend games, the English premiership proves this point as does the re-development of Croker. The new stadia can also be used for other events e.g. Thomund hosting Elton John recently, Lansdowne & Croker hosting confrences etc. I'm sure Cork, Galway, Waterford or wherever new municipal stadiums are built would well be able to facilitate their future use.

Also comparing the RWC with Fifa isn't really fair as the facilities and stadia required by the RWC are much less. You're talking about a competition of 32 teams vs a competition of 20 and out of those 20 maybe 10 teams would be well supported and require to play their games in larger stadia of 40k plus.
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Re: RWC 2023: Ireland

Postby Fred Funk » October 28th, 2011, 1:37 pm

I am all for this.
Just remember when you are comparing to NZ that we are surrounded by numerous rugby nations with strong followings.
Capacities have to be much better across the board than NZ. We either need the GAA or we need Scotland/England/Wales to help.
Lets start the negotiations.
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