Lions squad for Australia 2013

[firhousefan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22352825

Congrats to the Blue Lions!

Backs: Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Rob Kearney (Ireland),
Tommy Bowe (Ireland), Alex Cuthbert (Wales), Sean Maitland (Scotland), George North (Wales), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland), Jamie Roberts (Wales), Manu Tuilagi (England),
Owen Farrell (England), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland),
Conor Murray (Ireland), Mike Phillips (Wales), Ben Youngs (England).

Forwards: Dan Cole (England), Cian Healy (Ireland), Gethin Jenkins (Wales), Adam Jones (Wales), Matt Stevens (England), Mako Vunipola (England), Dylan Hartley (England), Richard Hibbard (Wales), Tom Youngs (England), Ian Evans (Wales), Richie Gray (Scotland), Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales), Paul O'Connell (Ireland), Geoff Parling (England), Tom Croft (England), Toby Faletau (Wales), Jamie Heaslip (Ireland), Dan Lydiate (Wales), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Justin Tipuric (Wales), Sam Warburton (Wales).

Warburton Captain.

[tackle-bag]

The Warburton appointment appears to have been accepted by many commentators without much critical analysis. I appreciate that he's a great player, but there are a number of key points against him:-

(i) He got himself sent off in the biggest game of his career to date and thereby cost his country a place in a RWC final;
(ii) He has played almost no competitive knock-out rugby at European or Pro12 level (he didn't play in the Leinster game in 2012 and didn't start any of the knock-out games when Cardiff won the Amlin in 2010); and
(iii) He's still only 24 and hasn't experienced a Lions tour previously.

I'm not doubting that he has put in some stellar performances for Wales in big games, particularly in the group stages of the 2011 RWC and during the past two 6 Nations campaigns. He definitely deserves to tour and probably to start at openside in the Test matches. However, I don't think there is sufficient evidence to show that he has the requisite temperament or experience to be chosen as captain.

[fourthirtythree]

i) he dealt with admirably unlike his management team (and in particular his defence coach who exploded in an embarrassing way) and while hysteria was being whipped up around him
ii) true but
iii) he has captained his national side and is older than when i) happened. You don't have experience until you do.

It's not something that bothers me or I suspect most people.

[Lar]

i) he dealt with admirably unlike his management team (and in particular his defence coach who exploded in an embarrassing way) and while hysteria was being whipped up around him
ii) true but
iii) he has captained his national side and is older than when i) happened. You don't have experience until you do.

It's not something that bothers me or I suspect most people.

He also captained his National Side on what was effectively a Tour during the RWC 2011 in NZ. And received plenty of plaudits for the manner in which he conducted himself, both on and off the pitch and before and after the famous/notorious sending off.

I just don't think he is (or should be) a guaranteed Test starter given his 2013 form. Other than that I think he ticks all the captaincy boxes.

[Logorrhea]

Given how conservative the squad selection was, there is so much experience and so many leaders in the squad and on the pitch that the captain is primarily a media darling.

I think hes the wrong captain, but its not important and I'm sure he'll do a fine job.

[Showbiz]

Seems Dylan Hartley could be out of the tour after being sent off in the PL final for abusing the referee. Couldn't happen to a nicer fellow. Good news for the Lions

[Logorrhea]

And will result in the right hooker heading out instead of that clown. Bullet dodged all round and just reward for Best.

[Peg Leg]

Seems Dylan Hartley could be out of the tour after being sent off in the PL final for abusing the referee. Couldn't happen to a nicer fellow. Good news for the Lions

What goes through Mallinders head to award that duff man the captaincy?

[fourthirtythree]

Good news for common decency.

[ronk]

Seems Dylan Hartley could be out of the tour after being sent off in the PL final for abusing the referee. Couldn't happen to a nicer fellow. Good news for the Lions

What goes through Mallinders head to award that duff man the captaincy?

Duff Man says a lot of things

[hugonaut]

Seems Dylan Hartley could be out of the tour after being sent off in the PL final for abusing the referee. Couldn't happen to a nicer fellow. Good news for the Lions

What goes through Mallinders head to award that duff man the captaincy?

I don't know. Sometimes if you make your most penalty-prone player the captain [if he's already a leader in the team that is, not if he's just some penno-machine who like Neil Best] it means he stays on the pitch longer because he has built a rapport with the referee. That's a pretty lame idea/suggestion though.

It's not as though Mallinder doesn't have another option: Tom Wood is going to captain England on tour and is both a quality player and a good skin. You'd think that he'd get the nod next season after this latest incident. Hartley's not even that good a player in the first place, never mind being a good captain. He lost his test place in RWC11 to Tommo, and he's lost it again this season to Tom Youngs. He can't make the English team and he certainly shouldn't have made the Lions squad. My respect for Rowntree [who I quite like, from what I've seen of him] really dropped with the inclusion of Hartley, Stevens and Vunipola in the Lions front row corps. Talk about home town decisions!

Back to Hartley: he's now got bans for gouging, biting, punching and abusing the ref. What's left for his dance card?

[ronk]

Spitting, stamping on the head, spear tackles.

[hugonaut]

Spitting, stamping on the head, spear tackles.

Jesus – he's only halfway there!

[ronk]

Spitting, stamping on the head, spear tackles.

Jesus – he's only halfway there!

Plenty of time.

[Jackie Brown]

11 weeks

[olaf the fat]

Good luck Rory! Should have being called day 1.

But in England a red card and a ban for abusing the ref, pro12 not even a citing for a kick in the head.

[artaneboy]

Good luck Rory! Should have being called day 1.

But in England a red card and a ban for abusing the ref, pro12 not even a citing for a kick in the head.

Well intent was the issue in Hartley's case. He got a specific warning and just would not heed it. I do feel sorry for him on missing a second Lions your. But 'them's the rools'

If Best goes- and he should be the sub now, he could well leap frog into the test side. Neither Youngs or Hibbert are any great shakes...

[olaf the fat]

According to Hartley he did not intend to call the ref a f%~king cheat.

It just the difference in the application of the rules, sometimes what you intend to do is not what you actually do. For example I did not intend to stoke to coals of POCs intent in the Munster Leinster game, merely highlight our leagues failure to impliment the rules for right or wrong?

If for example BOD or Bowe did the same thing as DH last Saturday, does anybody think they would be missing the plane?
And pocs is not the only historic example one could quote.

Anyways shame on DH, but what was he selected for in the first place?
And fair play to the English crowd, sometimes rugby should come first!

[olaf the fat]

Oh and I don't feel too sorry for him, sure Sky sports will fly him out and pay him double just to sit in camera shot and look all Poe faced when a line out goes wrong, as if he would 1) be selected 2) do any better!


Not sure about his merits in "missing" a previous lions tour, if not banned or injured would he have been selected? No good hookers knocking about then?

[hugonaut]

Oh and I don't feel too sorry for him, sure Sky sports will fly him out and pay him double just to sit in camera shot and look all Poe faced when a line out goes wrong, as if he would 1) be selected 2) do any better!


Not sure about his merits in "missing" a previous lions tour, if not banned or injured would he have been selected? No good hookers knocking about then?

Not even sure if it's true. He hadn't started a single test match for England when the Lions squad was announced in 2009, and he was playing for England in Argentina in June 2009, i.e. during the Lions tour [source: http://www.espn.co.uk/statsguru/rugby/p ... view=match ]. So he wasn't called up when Flannery got injured, and he wasn't banned, as far as I can tell.