David Nucifora - 2015/2016

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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby rooster » September 6th, 2016, 11:43 am

simonokeeffe wrote:My lock hope is based on there being 8 starting and 4 benching for provinces to cover 2 + 1 for Ireland plus Kleyn the only one contracted for next season

On Nukibollocks theory then we would be holding back an Irish qualified lock
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby simonokeeffe » September 6th, 2016, 12:48 pm

rooster wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:My lock hope is based on there being 8 starting and 4 benching for provinces to cover 2 + 1 for Ireland plus Kleyn the only one contracted for next season

On Nukibollocks theory then we would be holding back an Irish qualified lock


I'd forgotten about Treadwell, but think theres still a need for a th lock there
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby rooster » September 6th, 2016, 7:42 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:
rooster wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:My lock hope is based on there being 8 starting and 4 benching for provinces to cover 2 + 1 for Ireland plus Kleyn the only one contracted for next season

On Nukibollocks theory then we would be holding back an Irish qualified lock


I'd forgotten about Treadwell, but think theres still a need for a th lock there

There is more need for an 8 and a loosehead
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby simonokeeffe » September 6th, 2016, 8:36 pm

ah Rodney covers both sides :)

agree with you on the 8 though
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby dropkick » September 7th, 2016, 12:29 pm

I can see why Ulster fans are upset but I think the IRFU are looking at a bigger picture. They want the provinces to become self sufficient and are pushing them in that direction. They got stricter in the last 3 or 4 years which is forcing the provinces to get better at producing players. If theres an area of weakness in the country (like scrum halves) then all the provinces have to find solutions as to why there is a shortage. Its the position that usually has the smallest player on the pitch so it doesn't need any freaks of nature but just highly skilled players.


Supposing all the provinces were allowed to have NIQ scrum halves. They could then comfortably sit back and relax and not bother looking for solutions.


So it boils down to human nature. If theres no real need for something, why waste the energy. Remember a few years ago and we'd no props coming through in the country. I read many theories online but the simple fact was there was nobody really cared because John Hayes never got injured. It was only after getting humiliated by England that there was a big debate about props and suddenly the IRFU and provinces sprung into life and set up a conveyor belt of props. Ross Kane and Andrew Porter the latest to roll off that production line.


By allowing only one NIQ per position between the provinces the IRFU have cleverly set up a system that forces the provinces to find and develop their own players in every position.


Another example and probably the best example is Munster. They won the U20 interpros last year for the first time as well as the U19s. This season they've gone 4 from 4 so far. Its a massive turnaround from previous years when they were getting routinely coming 3rd or 4th at underage level. The turnaround happened after Munsters golden generation retired, those running Munster suddenly realised the cupboard was looking very bare and started taking the academy seriously. Before that I got the impression they had an academy because the IRFU told them to. Suddenly after the retirements there was a NEED to do something and they had to come up with solutions. Things like the Rockwell summer camp was set up etc and now they're starting to see the benefits. Now with Munster producing more players and Connachts rise, Ireland get to the JWC final for the first time.


So the rules are not designed to harm the provinces but to make things slightly harder in the short term so they'll be better in the long term.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Dave Cahill » September 7th, 2016, 12:47 pm

dropkick wrote:I can see why Ulster fans are upset but I think the IRFU are looking at a bigger picture. They want the provinces to become self sufficient and are pushing them in that direction. They got stricter in the last 3 or 4 years which is forcing the provinces to get better at producing players. If theres an area of weakness in the country (like scrum halves) then all the provinces have to find solutions as to why there is a shortage. Its the position that usually has the smallest player on the pitch so it doesn't need any freaks of nature but just highly skilled players.


Supposing all the provinces were allowed to have NIQ scrum halves. They could then comfortably sit back and relax and not bother looking for solutions.


So it boils down to human nature. If theres no real need for something, why waste the energy. Remember a few years ago and we'd no props coming through in the country. I read many theories online but the simple fact was there was nobody really cared because John Hayes never got injured. It was only after getting humiliated by England that there was a big debate about props and suddenly the IRFU and provinces sprung into life and set up a conveyor belt of props. Ross Kane and Andrew Porter the latest to roll off that production line.


By allowing only one NIQ per position between the provinces the IRFU have cleverly set up a system that forces the provinces to find and develop their own players in every position.


Another example and probably the best example is Munster. They won the U20 interpros last year for the first time as well as the U19s. This season they've gone 4 from 4 so far. Its a massive turnaround from previous years when they were getting routinely coming 3rd or 4th at underage level. The turnaround happened after Munsters golden generation retired, those running Munster suddenly realised the cupboard was looking very bare and started taking the academy seriously. Before that I got the impression they had an academy because the IRFU told them to. Suddenly after the retirements there was a NEED to do something and they had to come up with solutions. Things like the Rockwell summer camp was set up etc and now they're starting to see the benefits. Now with Munster producing more players and Connachts rise, Ireland get to the JWC final for the first time.


So the rules are not designed to harm the provinces but to make things slightly harder in the short term so they'll be better in the long term.



The validity of everything you say is undermined by the Union preventing Ulster resigning a great of both Ulster and the world game who has been a proven good influence on young players and isn't blocking anyone and allowing them to sign Coetzee who will be blocker to young Ulster players in a position they are now weak in.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » September 7th, 2016, 12:52 pm

That way of thinking is too simple to me. As I said before, the IRFU should be doing more to find players who can replace the NIQs. Whether that's scouting for IQ players, signing project players, or (and this is the big one that I think they should go with) stipulate that IQ players need to play a certain number of league games. To me it makes no sense to have extended Pienaar's contract previously without doing anything about the lack of a succession plan/attempt to find an IQ player.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby wwed » September 7th, 2016, 1:48 pm

While IRFU rightly focus on developing Irish players, they also need to help the provinces remain as competitive as possible at European level. Without that we'll end up undermining the provincial system as ever more money and players move to France and England. So they need to balance these objectives and in this case, a world class player who wants to stay in Ireland and isn't chasing big money should be allowed stay and help Ulster compete.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby rooster » September 7th, 2016, 4:17 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:That way of thinking is too simple to me. As I said before, the IRFU should be doing more to find players who can replace the NIQs. Whether that's scouting for IQ players, signing project players, or (and this is the big one that I think they should go with) stipulate that IQ players need to play a certain number of league games. To me it makes no sense to have extended Pienaar's contract previously without doing anything about the lack of a succession plan/attempt to find an IQ player.

The thing is that we have actually tried to get a decent 9 but all the previous attempts have been scuppered either as the players not good enough or an attitude problem with some, now when we have a couple of decent prospects with aspirations to be pro players our best tutor won't be able to mentor them while we struggle with a 9 who busts a gut and tries but just does not have it for 90 mins a match and he has had plenty of starts to prove himself.
A typical example was last week, clock at 80, Dragons got turned over on their last play and he trys to score a try when we already had bonus and finished up with a rib injury to himself instead of sticking the ball in the stand.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby ronk » September 7th, 2016, 9:04 pm

dropkick wrote:I can see why Ulster fans are upset but I think the IRFU are looking at a bigger picture. They want the provinces to become self sufficient and are pushing them in that direction. They got stricter in the last 3 or 4 years which is forcing the provinces to get better at producing players. If theres an area of weakness in the country (like scrum halves) then all the provinces have to find solutions as to why there is a shortage. Its the position that usually has the smallest player on the pitch so it doesn't need any freaks of nature but just highly skilled players.


So the rules are not designed to harm the provinces but to make things slightly harder in the short term so they'll be better in the long term.


Except they're not looking at the big picture, they're looking at one position rather than the affect one guy has on the team and the guys around him.

There are rare players, franchise players, who are the spider at the centre of the web. They make everyone better, they improve standards and their benefits outweigh the losses in terms of potential blocking of other position.

Pienaar is definitely one such player. Nacewa, Contepomi, BOD, O'Connell, Jim Williams were those guys.

BJ Botha was a blocker. He brought success but not by setting a standard. The guys around him benefited from his performances but weren't lifted by them.

Ulster aren't sore about losing a good player in a position of need, they're losing an irreplaceable legend. He wasn't just there for the money.


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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby rooster » September 7th, 2016, 10:40 pm

ronk wrote:Ulster aren't sore about losing a good player in a position of need, they're losing an irreplaceable legend. He wasn't just there for the money.

Certainly that is true, he turned down considerably more money from Toulon to stay at Ulster at his last contract renewal.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby simonokeeffe » September 13th, 2016, 8:17 am

get ready for some outrage my Northern friends; threeredkings reporting Munster are signing Young Munster and ex baby Bok scrumhalf called Griesel who came here in 2015 to study in UL

would IQ in 2018 but is a project/furriner
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » September 13th, 2016, 10:21 am

No idea what he's like but this type of signing should have happened ages ago. Same goes for a tighthead.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby simonokeeffe » September 13th, 2016, 10:49 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:No idea what he's like but this type of signing should have happened ages ago. Same goes for a tighthead.


I dont even know what his first name is, I'll wait for Keith Wood to pretend he knows it

Is telling that Andress that has been put out to pasture before Erasmus even took his coat off
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Armchair » September 13th, 2016, 3:41 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:get ready for some outrage my Northern friends; threeredkings reporting Munster are signing Young Munster and ex baby Bok scrumhalf called Griesel who came here in 2015 to study in UL

would IQ in 2018 but is a project/furriner


All pre-arranged with the Munster Branch via Young Munster before he came last season. People said it at the time but were told they were way wide of the mark.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby Dave Cahill » September 13th, 2016, 3:47 pm

Don't tell Goreyguy that he works in a coffee shop.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby simonokeeffe » September 13th, 2016, 6:28 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:Don't tell Goreyguy that he works in a coffee shop.


Yeah thats more a scrum coach's cv

Armchair wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:get ready for some outrage my Northern friends; threeredkings reporting Munster are signing Young Munster and ex baby Bok scrumhalf called Griesel who came here in 2015 to study in UL

would IQ in 2018 but is a project/furriner


All pre-arranged with the Munster Branch via Young Munster before he came last season. People said it at the time but were told they were way wide of the mark.


In and of itself Im ok with it as a signing, Williams and TOL have more chance of playing 2 of B*witched in a movie than for Ireland (again)

But contrast with the Pienaar affair and somethings rotten in the state of Denmark
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby dropkick » September 15th, 2016, 2:41 pm

Griesel is a young, project player that would be on a small wage and possibly enter the academy. Behind Murray, the standard of scrumhalf play in Munster is appalling and Munster are suffering now as a result of not doing enough for the past 10 years.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby goreyguy » September 15th, 2016, 4:14 pm

dropkick wrote:Griesel is a young, project player that would be on a small wage and possibly enter the academy. Behind Murray, the standard of scrumhalf play in Munster is appalling and Munster are suffering now as a result of not doing enough for the past 10 years.


he wont be entering the academy he is 24 and not IQ'd.
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Re: David Nucifora - 2015/2016

Postby simonokeeffe » September 15th, 2016, 4:21 pm

dropkick wrote:Griesel is a young, project player that would be on a small wage and possibly enter the academy. Behind Murray, the standard of scrumhalf play in Munster is appalling and Munster are suffering now as a result of not doing enough for the past 10 years.


Minor quibble but hed get a (development) contract, too old/experienced for academy

Its amazing how ti varying extents TOL, Williams, AND Sheridan all started off good and then just fell off cliffs
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