Ireland v France Sat 25th Feb 2017 4.50pm

[johng]

Testing signature off

Those Glaxy s6 edges are chyte nannyways

[Dave Cahill]

EG I don't think that your comments on Dave Kearney are out of order or provincially biased, but some rush to be offended by it

As the other hand in that dicussion, I would agree with that, my issue was the same as it often is - people assessing players on a shallow basis, whether is Dave Kearney, John Kelly, or Paddy Wallace, without any appreciation for the more esoteric attributes players like them bring. And its okay to take issue with something someone says and to put forth an opposing view

In fairness, you responded to MunsterSugar's "guys like Dave K" comment by saying

["Guys like Dave'', an international winger with a couple of European trophies, a couple of Pro12s and a 6N championship in his arse pocket in his mid-20s - is that what you mean?

We all know what he meant by his comment, and I'm sure plenty would somewhat agree as DK has never lit up matches in the same way Adam Byrne, ROL or Nacewa have done. Your reply could be viewed as wumming, and nothing about "the more esoteric attributes players like them bring".

I didn't know what he meant by his comment - rugby fans often don't watch games all that closely for minutiae and only see the headline stats (the worst thing that happened to rugby in recent years is the easy availability of statistics) and not the tiny little split second things that are essential.

Its not about lighting up matches, its about doing the simple things well, every single time, about making the right decision, every single time - those are among the esoteric attributes, they're what wins and thats why the great coaches always pick the Dave Kearneys over the, say, Matt Healys. People can never understand why Rob Kearney, or Jordi Murphy, or Donnacha Ryan or others of their ilk get picked over more highly hyped flashier players who 'light up' matches - its because they win matches and don't care about lighting them up. Leinster used to light up matches almost every time we played with our swashbuckling style - we won nothing though. Heres one for you all - if Ian Dowling were just coming through now, Joe Schmidt would have him in every match day squad - a guy who's try scoring career total playing on the wing for one of europes most dominant sides, would be beaten by most similar teams wings seasonal totals

[johng]

Dare I mention Micko Driscoll? Good bread and butter lad there. Ask Leo.

[MunsterSugar]

As the other hand in that dicussion, I would agree with that, my issue was the same as it often is - people assessing players on a shallow basis, whether is Dave Kearney, John Kelly, or Paddy Wallace, without any appreciation for the more esoteric attributes players like them bring. And its okay to take issue with something someone says and to put forth an opposing view

In fairness, you responded to MunsterSugar's "guys like Dave K" comment by saying

["Guys like Dave'', an international winger with a couple of European trophies, a couple of Pro12s and a 6N championship in his arse pocket in his mid-20s - is that what you mean?

We all know what he meant by his comment, and I'm sure plenty would somewhat agree as DK has never lit up matches in the same way Adam Byrne, ROL or Nacewa have done. Your reply could be viewed as wumming, and nothing about "the more esoteric attributes players like them bring".

Its not about lighting up matches, its about doing the simple things well, every single time, about making the right decision, every single time - those are among the esoteric attributes, they're what wins and thats why the great coaches always pick the Dave Kearneys over the, say, Matt Healys. People can never understand why Rob Kearney, or Jordi Murphy, or Donnacha Ryan or others of their ilk get picked over more highly hyped flashier players who 'light up' matches - its because they win matches and don't care about lighting them up. Leinster used to light up matches almost every time we played with our swashbuckling style - we won nothing though.

And maybe that's why alot may not judge him highly. 2 people judge different ways.

[fourthirtythree]

Heres one for you all - if Ian Dowling were just coming through now, Joe Schmidt would have him in every match day squad - a guy who's try scoring career total playing on the wing for one of europes most dominant sides, would be beaten by most similar teams wings seasonal totals

I've often thought about that, a man who was roundly mocked here and whose inclusion on an Irish squad was derided. There's some truth in it, solid player, made metres in the tackle, tackled above his weight, didn't lose the ball etc. but his skills level wasn't that great to be honest. I doubt very much he would have been picked ahead of Dave Kearney who has a more rounded skill set but the same weaknesses.

Mick O'Driscoll was a step ahead of that level I think.

[MunsterSugar]

Ian Dowlings own word were "I was a yop rugby league style player luck yo be in a team peaking st the right time". He knew he wasn't a top winger and hadn't pace. But powerful and stayed on his feet. Certainly not international class though

[Flash Gordon]

Just out of interest as I don't have the time to read back over World War Tapatalk WTF have Dave Kearney, Mick O'Driscoll, Anthony Horgan and Ian Dowling got to do with Ireland vs France?

[Laighin Break]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

[jezzer]

It seems that a lot of posters are incapable of responding to a point about a Munster or Leinster player without turning it into a inter-provincial shitfight. Boys and girls (from both sides), I really don't want to start throwing warning and bans around, but this shite is getting tiresome.

Good man, Limey.

When you do start with the heavy artillery, there are as many or more nagging/slagging Leinster posters as there are Munster ones. But it's hard weeding out the passive-aggressive, self-absorbed wummers from those who just disagree about something, so I'm not sure bans will be the answer.

All posters need to stop repetitively hammering their bias and their pet causes down peoples' throats ad nauseum. I'm sure I'm guilty of it sometimes but it's out of control on here. Most threads are the entertainment equivalent of listening to 2 retired auditors discussing the thermal efficiency of their respective attics.

[kermischocolate]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

was there anyone in position to receive the kick?

[Dexter]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

Was he already lining it up when the advantage was indicated?

[jezzer]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

Personally, I hate the logic of taking the DG. But JS was obviously stoked to have landed it and the boost that gave our midfield general might have made an unseen difference overall to the result, for as long as he stayed on the pitch afterward.

In isolation though I think it's a daft option. Not as convinced him overriding Best and running it earlier on was such a bad call. We couldn't see what he saw when he tapped. But I suppose the lack of points from that visit de facto makes it not a great call in a tight game.

[Oldschool]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

Was he already lining it up when the advantage was indicated?

What was obvious was that Murray got the ball to Sexton aa soon as Nigel called advantage. That gave France no time to charge down the DG attempt. It was a smart bit of play all round.

[All Blacks nil]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

Was he already lining it up when the advantage was indicated?

What was obvious was that Murray got the ball to Sexton aa soon as Nigel called advantage. That gave France no time to charge down the DG attempt. It was a smart bit of play all round.

I never agree with taking a drop goal when guaranteed three points from a penalty. The quick ball from Murray would have presented decent attacking options.
Then again you have to take into account that Johnny was probably spooked by his previious attempt where he turned a guaranteed three points into none and he wanted to be doubly sure of those three points.

A cracking drop goal though and should be an option more often in open play.

[Dave Cahill]

Sometimes the energising effect of a piece of play can almost outweigh the points it garners (or prevents).

[Oldschool]

Heres one for you all - if Ian Dowling were just coming through now, Joe Schmidt would have him in every match day squad - a guy who's try scoring career total playing on the wing for one of europes most dominant sides, would be beaten by most similar teams wings seasonal totals

I've often thought about that, a man who was roundly mocked here and whose inclusion on an Irish squad was derided. There's some truth in it, solid player, made metres in the tackle, tackled above his weight, didn't lose the ball etc. but his skills level wasn't that great to be honest. I doubt very much he would have been picked ahead of Dave Kearney who has a more rounded skill set but the same weaknesses.

Mick O'Driscoll was a step ahead of that level I think.

Reckon Trimble would still get the nod.
MOD - I've said this before - was not big enough to be an international SR. The reason his line out was so go was because he was so small, there was a price to be paid, elsewhere, for the line out reward. His coaches thought it was worth it. When he was at Perpignan they moved him to the backrow.

[Oldschool]

Just out of interest as I don't have the time to read back over World War Tapatalk WTF have Dave Kearney, Mick O'Driscoll, Anthony Horgan and Ian Dowling got to do with Ireland vs France?

Sorry I didn't read your post sooner.
Nothingto answer your question.

[Oldschool]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

Personally, I hate the logic of taking the DG. But JS was obviously stoked to have landed it and the boost that gave our midfield general might have made an unseen difference overall to the result, for as long as he stayed on the pitch afterward.

In isolation though I think it's a daft option. Not as convinced him overriding Best and running it earlier on was such a bad call. We couldn't see what he saw when he tapped. But I suppose the lack of points from that visit de facto makes it not a great call in a tight game.

Bit surprised at you there Jezzer.
A DG is a great option to have in an OH/SH combinations locker.
If Sexton had missed the DG he still had the penalty coming, he may have already decided he was going to kick the points
At that point in the game I think Ireland wanted more points on the board .
Nudge - 2009 GS.

[Flash Gordon]

Sometimes the energising effect of a piece of play can almost outweigh the points it garners (or prevents).

Absolutely, J10's body language and the look on what was a French player's faces said it all whenever we put points on the board - that was a big French team and they only played the game with 36% possession.

You always feel more energised when you score or win and always feel tired when you lose or conceded. I should know, when I was playing for Andrew's I was constantly exhausted.....

[jezzer]

You don't want to know!

Anywho, what are people's thoughts of Sexton taking the dropgoal when we already had penalty advantage from a kickable position? I much prefer going for the gamble of a cross field kick or a garryowen, and then kicking the points if it doesn't work out.

Personally, I hate the logic of taking the DG. But JS was obviously stoked to have landed it and the boost that gave our midfield general might have made an unseen difference overall to the result, for as long as he stayed on the pitch afterward.

In isolation though I think it's a daft option. Not as convinced him overriding Best and running it earlier on was such a bad call. We couldn't see what he saw when he tapped. But I suppose the lack of points from that visit de facto makes it not a great call in a tight game.

Bit surprised at you there Jezzer.
A DG is a great option to have in an OH/SH combinations locker.
If Sexton had missed the DG he still had the penalty coming, he may have already decided he was going to kick the points
At that point in the game I think Ireland wanted more points on the board .
Nudge - 2009 GS.

What I meant OS is that Sexton was more than 80% likely to land the penalty from that range. SO basically he has 3 points in the bag (or about 2.5 points if you want to be really picky) and an advantage to do something with. Why trade your advantage for a DG, which gets you the same points you would have had anyway? Might as well try a crossfield kick or a speculative grubber and come back for the 2.5/3 points if it doesn't work.

But as I said, and Dave C repeated, there is a hidden upside to the made DG in that it gave JS a clear boost to have nailed it. It still isn't worth wasting an advantage in my view.