Wales v Ireland Fri 10th March 8 05pm

[RAILWAY1]

Let me start off by hanging my Munster hat in the corner out of the way. Furlong and Best had played themselves to a standstill at least 15 minutes before Joe decided to make the changes and he did neither player any favours by leaving them on as long as he did. The replacements would not have hindered any comeback, in fact the fresh legs would more than likely have helped.

I have to agree with the poster who said that the step down from Murray to Marmion was not as great as some expected and this has to be a positive for the future.

[dropkick]

Just as a last note, take a look at the minutes played for our sub-tighthead props [Marty Moore and Nathan White] in the last three Six Nations prior to this one:

Marty Moore: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic [average 21.7 mins/sub appearance]
Nathan White: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic [average 21.6 mins/sub appearance]

My reading of that [in comparison to the limited gametime given to John Ryan in the last couple of games – 1 min against Wales, 6 mins against France], is that – as the original poster and some others have written – Schmidt doesn't really have confidence in Ryan. He's got to pick a sub-tighthead though, and at the moment Ryan is the next cab off the rank.

Moore and White played under Schmidt for years. Schmidt doesn't have confidence in any player that hasn't studied his methods for a year.


The best scrum of the match from an Ireland point of view was the very last one with the subs on. The Welsh were in reverse. Leaving the scrum aside, Ryan is fairly mobile around the pitch and Furlong had put in a big shift so why not throw on the fresh legs earlier.


The bench should be used as a weapon not a bandage. We've the deepest squad of players we ever had and yet he is afraid to use the bench. The team is crippled from being afraid to make mistakes.

[Blue not red blood]

Re Wayne Barnes

Its the inconsistency that gets me,
I hardly recall any ruck penalties in the game so he seemed to let everything go.
But the real discussion point is their tighthead lay on the wrong side after a lineout maul collapsed. penalty but no card.
Possibly the next play Tipruic comes in offside to stop a maul. Penalty no card
Johnny is lying under Jonathon Davies and cant move. Yellow card
No consistency

[Donny B.]

Re Wayne Barnes

Its the inconsistency that gets me,
I hardly recall any ruck penalties in the game so he seemed to let everything go.
But the real discussion point is their tighthead lay on the wrong side after a lineout maul collapsed. penalty but no card.
Possibly the next play Tipruic comes in offside to stop a maul. Penalty no card
Johnny is lying under Jonathon Davies and cant move. Yellow card
No consistency

It's because he's a biased c**t and always has been. If you study the pictures carefully you can actually see his semi-erect penis as he scrambles to get the card out for Sexton. He actually went for the card before play had even stopped such was his eagerness to send him to the bin. But Wales can give multiple penalties away on their line with not even a mention of a yellow.

Ireland deserved to lose on Friday, they were sh!t. But this guy is a cheating c**t and I'll be cracking open the champers the minute the pr!*k retires!

[All Blacks nil]

Re Wayne Barnes

Its the inconsistency that gets me,
I hardly recall any ruck penalties in the game so he seemed to let everything go.
But the real discussion point is their tighthead lay on the wrong side after a lineout maul collapsed. penalty but no card.
Possibly the next play Tipruic comes in offside to stop a maul. Penalty no card
Johnny is lying under Jonathon Davies and cant move. Yellow card
No consistency

It's because he's a biased c**t and always has been. If you study the pictures carefully you can actually see his semi-erect penis as he scrambles to get the card out for Sexton. He actually went for the card before play had even stopped such was his eagerness to send him to the bin. But Wales can give multiple penalties away on their line with not even a mention of a yellow.

Ireland deserved to lose on Friday, they were sh!t. But this guy is a cheating c**t and I'll be cracking open the champers the minute the pr!*k retires!

Moderators
Have a chat.

[Oldschool]

Re Wayne Barnes

Its the inconsistency that gets me,
I hardly recall any ruck penalties in the game so he seemed to let everything go.
But the real discussion point is their tighthead lay on the wrong side after a lineout maul collapsed. penalty but no card.
Possibly the next play Tipruic comes in offside to stop a maul. Penalty no card
Johnny is lying under Jonathon Davies and cant move. Yellow card
No consistency

It's because he's a biased c**t and always has been. If you study the pictures carefully you can actually see his semi-erect penis as he scrambles to get the card out for Sexton. He actually went for the card before play had even stopped such was his eagerness to send him to the bin. But Wales can give multiple penalties away on their line with not even a mention of a yellow.

Ireland deserved to lose on Friday, they were sh!t. But this guy is a cheating c**t and I'll be cracking open the champers the minute the pr!*k retires!

Will that be after he retires as a TMO.
Ducking quickly!

[hugonaut]

Just as a last note, take a look at the minutes played for our sub-tighthead props [Marty Moore and Nathan White] in the last three Six Nations prior to this one:

Marty Moore: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic [average 21.7 mins/sub appearance]
Nathan White: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic [average 21.6 mins/sub appearance]

My reading of that [in comparison to the limited gametime given to John Ryan in the last couple of games – 1 min against Wales, 6 mins against France], is that – as the original poster and some others have written – Schmidt doesn't really have confidence in Ryan. He's got to pick a sub-tighthead though, and at the moment Ryan is the next cab off the rank.

Moore and White played under Schmidt for years. Schmidt doesn't have confidence in any player that hasn't studied his methods for a year.


The best scrum of the match from an Ireland point of view was the very last one with the subs on. The Welsh were in reverse. Leaving the scrum aside, Ryan is fairly mobile around the pitch and Furlong had put in a big shift so why not throw on the fresh legs earlier.


The bench should be used as a weapon not a bandage. We've the deepest squad of players we ever had and yet he is afraid to use the bench. The team is crippled from being afraid to make mistakes.

They weren't afraid to make mistakes on Friday – they made loads of them!

I think you can use the bench as a weapon when you have weapons on the bench – we had some weapons and some bandages, to use your terms.

You can say that we have the 'deepest squad of players we've ever had' but I'm looking at a bench with Niall Scannell [24 years old, 1+3], John Ryan [28 years old, 0+5 caps] and Kieran Marmion [25 years old, 1+11] and it doesn't fill me with confidence. That's a matter of opinion obviously, and I respect your right to hold a different one. People see different things in different players.

Nobody wants to sh*t on Tommy Bowe because he is a hell of a guy and has been both a genuinely world class player and a totem for us, but having him on the bench always seemed a very iffy call from JS. He's had a horrifically bad run with injuries over the last four years, he's 33 and he's not the player he was. That's not his fault, it just happens – injuries and age have caught up with him.

My perspective on the bench is that we had one poor selection in a good impact position [Bowe], some real weapons [Healy, Henderson and O'Mahony], and some guys who are sort of 'bandages' in that they're not really pushing the starters for their positions at this stage [Scannell, Jackson, Marmion and Ryan]. Best is a 100-capper, Sexton is a victorious Lions test outhalf and a recent IPOTY nominee, Murray is one of the three or four best players in his position in the world and Furlong looks like he's close to that level. From where I'm sitting there's a noticeable gap in both ability and experience between the starters and the subs in those positions.

[FLIP]

Re Wayne Barnes

Its the inconsistency that gets me,
I hardly recall any ruck penalties in the game so he seemed to let everything go.
But the real discussion point is their tighthead lay on the wrong side after a lineout maul collapsed. penalty but no card.
Possibly the next play Tipruic comes in offside to stop a maul. Penalty no card
Johnny is lying under Jonathon Davies and cant move. Yellow card
No consistency

It's because he's a biased c**t and always has been. If you study the pictures carefully you can actually see his semi-erect penis as he scrambles to get the card out for Sexton. He actually went for the card before play had even stopped such was his eagerness to send him to the bin. But Wales can give multiple penalties away on their line with not even a mention of a yellow.

Ireland deserved to lose on Friday, they were sh!t. But this guy is a cheating c**t and I'll be cracking open the champers the minute the pr!*k retires!

Moderators
Have a chat.

Why, he's perfectly right statistically.

10 lost out of 14 refereed, one of the wins was against Georgia.

Ireland's win percentage since the beginning of Wayne Barnes career is significantly lower when Barnes refs us. (55.7% since 07 vs 33.1% when he has reffed us)

Barnes is not thick. He uses his in-depth knowledge of the laws to penalise those he dislikes and doesn't apply such penalties in a fair and balanced way, as clearly evidenced on Friday. And if you think a card not being given, or cards being given in an unbiased matter, would not have changed what was a one score game until the final minutes, there's no persuading you of anything approaching logical thought.

I wonder just how much changed with that percentage after this incident?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8yKQo9YxEg

[Oldschool]

Just as a last note, take a look at the minutes played for our sub-tighthead props [Marty Moore and Nathan White] in the last three Six Nations prior to this one:

Marty Moore: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic [average 21.7 mins/sub appearance]
Nathan White: http://www.irishrugby.ie/rugby/fixtures ... ef=dynamic [average 21.6 mins/sub appearance]

My reading of that [in comparison to the limited gametime given to John Ryan in the last couple of games – 1 min against Wales, 6 mins against France], is that – as the original poster and some others have written – Schmidt doesn't really have confidence in Ryan. He's got to pick a sub-tighthead though, and at the moment Ryan is the next cab off the rank.

Moore and White played under Schmidt for years. Schmidt doesn't have confidence in any player that hasn't studied his methods for a year.


The best scrum of the match from an Ireland point of view was the very last one with the subs on. The Welsh were in reverse. Leaving the scrum aside, Ryan is fairly mobile around the pitch and Furlong had put in a big shift so why not throw on the fresh legs earlier.


The bench should be used as a weapon not a bandage. We've the deepest squad of players we ever had and yet he is afraid to use the bench. The team is crippled from being afraid to make mistakes.

They weren't afraid to make mistakes on Friday – they made loads of them!

I think you can use the bench as a weapon when you have weapons on the bench – we had some weapons and some bandages, to use your terms.

You can say that we have the 'deepest squad of players we've ever had' but I'm looking at a bench with Niall Scannell [24 years old, 1+3], John Ryan [28 years old, 0+5 caps] and Kieran Marmion [25 years old, 1+11] and it doesn't fill me with confidence. That's a matter of opinion obviously, and I respect your right to hold a different one. People see different things in different players.

Nobody wants to sh*t on Tommy Bowe because he is a hell of a guy and has been both a genuinely world class player and a totem for us, but having him on the bench always seemed a very iffy call from JS. He's had a horrifically bad run with injuries over the last four years, he's 33 and he's not the player he was. That's not his fault, it just happens – injuries and age have caught up with him.

My perspective on the bench is that we had one poor selection in a good impact position [Bowe], some real weapons [Healy, Henderson and O'Mahony], and some guys who are sort of 'bandages' in that they're not really pushing the starters for their positions at this stage [Scannell, Jackson, Marmion and Ryan]. Best is a 100-capper, Sexton is a victorious Lions test outhalf and a recent IPOTY nominee, Murray is one of the three or four best players in his position in the world and Furlong looks like he's close to that level. From where I'm sitting there's a noticeable gap in both ability and experience between the starters and the subs in those positions.

The last lions tour was almost 4 years ago, it's not a relevant reference point.
All the players you mentioned had only one cap at some stage of their careers.
Best, we needed to use the "bandage" available he was haemorrhaging lineouts. Scannell coming on and hitting his man in the line out would have given us a big lift and made life a lot more difficult for Wales - That's a weapon imho.
Ryan is more than a bandage - he doesn't have to be as good as Furlong, he just has to be international standard (he is).
Marmion, if nothing else, has proven that he has a good temperament for international rugby, there was no justification for delaying his entry.
Jackson is better than Sexton when Sexton is struggling.
Who knows if subbing him on would have made a difference but he would not have let the side down.


Tommy just isn't a good call anymore.

[paddyor]

......
The team is crippled from being afraid to make mistakes.

They weren't afraid to make mistakes on Friday – they made loads of them!

.......

Another favorite is "The gameplan/strategy/tactics asks too much of the players". Apparently catching the ball, holding onto it, passing, and tackling are too much for the players.

[matt]

Re Wayne Barnes

Its the inconsistency that gets me,
I hardly recall any ruck penalties in the game so he seemed to let everything go.
But the real discussion point is their tighthead lay on the wrong side after a lineout maul collapsed. penalty but no card.
Possibly the next play Tipruic comes in offside to stop a maul. Penalty no card
Johnny is lying under Jonathon Davies and cant move. Yellow card
No consistency

Ireland's win percentage since the beginning of Wayne Barnes career is significantly lower when Barnes refs us. (55.7% since 07 vs 33.1% when he has reffed us)

Barnes is not thick. He uses his in-depth knowledge of the laws to penalise those he dislikes and doesn't apply such penalties in a fair and balanced way, as clearly evidenced on Friday. And if you think a card not being given, or cards being given in an unbiased matter, would not have changed what was a one score game until the final minutes, there's no persuading you of anything approaching logical thought.

I wonder just how much changed with that percentage after this incident?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8yKQo9YxEg[/quote]

Watching the game on Friday night I was annoyed at Barnes penalising us but not them so decided to watch full match yesterday and was even more annoyed at the following:-
01 min) Liam Williams off feet and takes out Henshaw
05) High tackle Webb on Henshaw, ok pen Ireland 3-0
08) Offside against SOB when Stander tackled but no Irish player formed ruck
14) After great run down left wing by Stander, North holds onto Zebo and makes no attempt to roll away, pen awarded but should have been YC
16) J.Davies accidently leaves knee to Sexton but tackler has duty of care and can't tackle Sexton on ground
22) Moriarty brings down line out after Ryan won it
24) Pen against Evans for bringing down maul
25) 5m from Welsh line Tipuric does not release, pen awarded but as 3rd infringement in 3 mins and 5m from line should have been YC
35) Sexton complains to Barnes after Furlong knock on that Wales not 5m from hindmost foot at scrum, Barnes agrees but just talks to Biggar
37) Sexton tackles J.Davies who then with 2 other welsh pins Sexton down, acknowledge that it was close to line but think it occurred more from JD action than attempt by Sexton to slow ball
49) Heaslip wins line out and Jake Ball brings down maul, pen awarded
55) Toner wins line out and AW Jones brings it down
55) High tackle by Biggar on Ringrose, pen awarded
65) North nudged Kearney off ball after Sexton Garryowen
66) Heaslip created maul with POM at back so first Tipuric then Owens bring it down
71) Sexton crosskick to Zebo but North & Halpenny kill ball

Considering Ireland only gave away 4 penalties in the game I believe Barnes did not stop Wales repeatedly bringing down our maul and killing ball. Some of the decisions may be debatable but anyone who takes the time to replay the incidents will see that we were hard down by.

[paddyor]

Re Wayne Barnes

Its the inconsistency that gets me,
I hardly recall any ruck penalties in the game so he seemed to let everything go.
But the real discussion point is their tighthead lay on the wrong side after a lineout maul collapsed. penalty but no card.
Possibly the next play Tipruic comes in offside to stop a maul. Penalty no card
Johnny is lying under Jonathon Davies and cant move. Yellow card
No consistency

Ireland's win percentage since the beginning of Wayne Barnes career is significantly lower when Barnes refs us. (55.7% since 07 vs 33.1% when he has reffed us)

Barnes is not thick. He uses his in-depth knowledge of the laws to penalise those he dislikes and doesn't apply such penalties in a fair and balanced way, as clearly evidenced on Friday. And if you think a card not being given, or cards being given in an unbiased matter, would not have changed what was a one score game until the final minutes, there's no persuading you of anything approaching logical thought.

I wonder just how much changed with that percentage after this incident?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8yKQo9YxEg

Watching the game on Friday night I was annoyed at Barnes penalising us but not them so decided to watch full match yesterday and was even more annoyed at the following:-
01 min) Liam Williams off feet and takes out Henshaw
05) High tackle Webb on Henshaw, ok pen Ireland 3-0
08) Offside against SOB when Stander tackled but no Irish player formed ruck
14) After great run down left wing by Stander, North holds onto Zebo and makes no attempt to roll away, pen awarded but should have been YC
16) J.Davies accidently leaves knee to Sexton but tackler has duty of care and can't tackle Sexton on ground
22) Moriarty brings down line out after Ryan won it
24) Pen against Evans for bringing down maul
25) 5m from Welsh line Tipuric does not release, pen awarded but as 3rd infringement in 3 mins and 5m from line should have been YC
35) Sexton complains to Barnes after Furlong knock on that Wales not 5m from hindmost foot at scrum, Barnes agrees but just talks to Biggar
37) Sexton tackles J.Davies who then with 2 other welsh pins Sexton down, acknowledge that it was close to line but think it occurred more from JD action than attempt by Sexton to slow ball
49) Heaslip wins line out and Jake Ball brings down maul, pen awarded
55) Toner wins line out and AW Jones brings it down
55) High tackle by Biggar on Ringrose, pen awarded
65) North nudged Kearney off ball after Sexton Garryowen
66) Heaslip created maul with POM at back so first Tipuric then Owens bring it down
71) Sexton crosskick to Zebo but North & Halpenny kill ball

Considering Ireland only gave away 4 penalties in the game I believe Barnes did not stop Wales repeatedly bringing down our maul and killing ball. Some of the decisions may be debatable but anyone who takes the time to replay the incidents will see that we were hard down by.[/quote]
I thought Wales played the ref better. It's been a feature throughout this 6N that when the attacking side score the yellow card clock tends to reset (see the Wales vs England game). I don't think it's right but cest le vie. You see it at all levels, where if there's enough time between penalties in the 22 the ref kindof "forgets".

I think the Welsh are pretty good at it too IMO. I remember watching them in the RWC against Australia (and maybe SA) and wondering how they were getting away with so much. No cards, just keeping pushing until the warning came then stopped.

Refs do make mistakes, but if you look at the mistakes they make and the mistakes you as team make. Mostly it's the latter that cost you the game.

[paddyor]

Watching the game on Friday night I was annoyed at Barnes penalising us but not them so decided to watch full match yesterday and was even more annoyed at the following:-
01 min) Liam Williams off feet and takes out Henshaw
05) High tackle Webb on Henshaw, ok pen Ireland 3-0
08) Offside against SOB when Stander tackled but no Irish player formed ruck
14) After great run down left wing by Stander, North holds onto Zebo and makes no attempt to roll away, pen awarded but should have been YC
16) J.Davies accidently leaves knee to Sexton but tackler has duty of care and can't tackle Sexton on ground
22) Moriarty brings down line out after Ryan won it
24) Pen against Evans for bringing down maul
25) 5m from Welsh line Tipuric does not release, pen awarded but as 3rd infringement in 3 mins and 5m from line should have been YC
35) Sexton complains to Barnes after Furlong knock on that Wales not 5m from hindmost foot at scrum, Barnes agrees but just talks to Biggar
37) Sexton tackles J.Davies who then with 2 other welsh pins Sexton down, acknowledge that it was close to line but think it occurred more from JD action than attempt by Sexton to slow ball
49) Heaslip wins line out and Jake Ball brings down maul, pen awarded
55) Toner wins line out and AW Jones brings it down
55) High tackle by Biggar on Ringrose, pen awarded
65) North nudged Kearney off ball after Sexton Garryowen
66) Heaslip created maul with POM at back so first Tipuric then Owens bring it down
71) Sexton crosskick to Zebo but North & Halpenny kill ball

Considering Ireland only gave away 4 penalties in the game I believe Barnes did not stop Wales repeatedly bringing down our maul and killing ball. Some of the decisions may be debatable but anyone who takes the time to replay the incidents will see that we were hard down by.

I thought Wales played the ref better. It's been a feature throughout this 6N that when the attacking side score the yellow card clock tends to reset (see the Wales vs England game). I don't think it's right but cest le vie. You see it at all levels, where if there's enough time between penalties in the 22 the ref kindof "forgets".

I think the Welsh are pretty good at it too IMO. I remember watching them in the RWC against Australia (and maybe SA) and wondering how they were getting away with so much. No cards, just keeping pushing until the warning came then stopped.

Refs do make mistakes, but if you look at the mistakes they make and the mistakes you as team make. Mostly it's the latter that cost you the game.

[All Blacks nil]

Watching the game on Friday night I was annoyed at Barnes penalising us but not them so decided to watch full match yesterday and was even more annoyed at the following:-
01 min) Liam Williams off feet and takes out Henshaw - Williams did go off his feet clearing Henshaw out but only after Henshaw dived on North without giving him the opportunity to regain his feet.- Penalty Wales
05) High tackle Webb on Henshaw, ok pen Ireland 3-0 - Yes
08) Offside against SOB when Stander tackled but no Irish player formed ruck - Stander was engaged in a ruck. He makes the tackle, visibly releases and attempts the steal. A Welsh player clears him out thus forming a ruck. SOB is offside -Penalty
14) After great run down left wing by Stander, North holds onto Zebo and makes no attempt to roll away, pen awarded but should have been YC - Could have been
16) J.Davies accidently leaves knee to Sexton but tackler has duty of care and can't tackle Sexton on ground - Unlike Henshaw in the earlier incident Davies kept his feet. Accidental, no penalty no card for me.
22) Moriarty brings down line out after Ryan won it - Seven Irish players on the ground, no Welsh - who brought it down?
24) Pen against Evans for bringing down maul - Even though TV caption said it was for collapsing maul I felt it was for Jones breaking his bind and going offside in the maul for
25) 5m from Welsh line Tipuric does not release, pen awarded but as 3rd infringement in 3 mins and 5m from line should have been YC - Tuporic makes the tackle and releases Jackson and then as the tackler goes for the ball and is completely legal. The tackle assist however does not release and it is a penalty although not as you implied against Tuporic
35) Sexton complains to Barnes after Furlong knock on that Wales not 5m from hindmost foot at scrum, Barnes agrees but just talks to Biggar - Sexton spoke to Barnes during a break in play. What do you think he should do? TMO. Barnes spoke to Biggar. When a captain (which Sexton is not) speaks to a ref about various things it's not to look for retrospective penalties (with the possible exception of foul play) but hopefully to gain future penalties
37) Sexton tackles J.Davies who then with 2 other welsh pins Sexton down, acknowledge that it was close to line but think it occurred more from JD action than attempt by Sexton to slow ball - Sexton was pinned but he made zero effort to roll away. Always a penalty and literally on the line always a yellow card.
49) Heaslip wins line out and Jake Ball brings down maul, pen awarded - Yes
55) Toner wins line out and AW Jones brings it down -Toner transferred the ball immediately but the carrier was then tackled immediately. It was not a maul.
55) High tackle by Biggar on Ringrose, pen awarded - Soft pen - would not have got one for it last season but a penalty
65) North nudged Kearney off ball after Sexton Garryowen - . You obviously reviewed this on RTE as you are using Ryle's descriptions whether right or wrong. Eased off rather than nudged. Possible penalty. I'd be whining if it was awarded against me but would be looking for one in my favour.
66) Heaslip created maul with POM at back so first Tipuric then Owens bring it down - Tuporic tackles Heaslip. Heaslip stands up in the tackle to form the maul. Tuporic did not bring the maul down. He is on the ground as he attempted to tackle Heaslip but he did not collapse the maul. I felt the Irish went to ground themselves after splintering off. Again no Welsh on the ground apart from Tuporic who was not near where the maul went down and Owens who is 2 metres behind the maul when it goes down.
71) Sexton crosskick to Zebo but North & Halpenny kill ball - Should have been a penalty. Neither the tackler or tackle assist released Zebo before attempting the steal

Have another look.

[Laighin Break]

On the Sexton - Davies incident; it seemed to me that Sexton didn't go down on the ball, but rather caught the ball and then slid down - possibly with the thought of getting a penalty, or buying himself a few more seconds. In this case, does the tackler still have to wait for the player to get back up?

[FLIP]

In this case, does the tackler still have to wait for the player to get back up?

There's no such law relating to "letting" a player who has dived on a ball get up.

Law 14 DEFINITIONS

This situation occurs when the ball is available on the ground and a player goes to ground to gather the ball, except immediately after a scrum or a ruck.

It also occurs when a player is on the ground in possession of the ball and has not been tackled.

The Game is to be played by players who are on their feet. A player must not make the ball unplayable by falling down. Unplayable means that the ball is not immediately available to either team so that play may continue. A player who makes the ball unplayable, or who obstructs the opposing team by falling down, is negating the purpose and Spirit of the Game and must be penalised.

A player who is not tackled, but who goes to ground while holding the ball, or a player who goes to ground and gathers the ball, must act immediately.

14.1 PLAYERS ON THE GROUND
(a) A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:
• Get up with the ball
• Pass the ball
• Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

The incoming player has no responsibility to actually let the player up, but must not prevent the above happening - which means they need to tackle the player first before attempting to steal the ball - hence why they will often wait.

[All Blacks nil]

The in coming player has no responsibility to actually let the player up, but must not prevent the above happening - which means they need to tackle the player first before attempting to steal the ball - hence why they will often wait.

No responsibility to let him up but must not prevent same. In other words, let him up.
Compare Davis on Sexton with Henshaw on North in the first minute and you will see a perfect illustration how to and how not to act in the position. In fairness to Henshaw he obviously realised he was wrong and got off as quick as he could. However he did transgress

(a) Falling over the player on the ground with the ball. A player must not intentionally fall on or over a player with the ball who is lying on the ground.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Wrong again FLIP

Another basic law.

[matt]

Watching the game on Friday night I was annoyed at Barnes penalising us but not them so decided to watch full match yesterday and was even more annoyed at the following:-
01 min) Liam Williams off feet and takes out Henshaw - Williams did go off his feet clearing Henshaw out but only after Henshaw dived on North without giving him the opportunity to regain his feet.- Penalty Wales
05) High tackle Webb on Henshaw, ok pen Ireland 3-0 - Yes
08) Offside against SOB when Stander tackled but no Irish player formed ruck - Stander was engaged in a ruck. He makes the tackle, visibly releases and attempts the steal. A Welsh player clears him out thus forming a ruck. SOB is offside -Penalty
14) After great run down left wing by Stander, North holds onto Zebo and makes no attempt to roll away, pen awarded but should have been YC - Could have been
16) J.Davies accidently leaves knee to Sexton but tackler has duty of care and can't tackle Sexton on ground - Unlike Henshaw in the earlier incident Davies kept his feet. Accidental, no penalty no card for me.
22) Moriarty brings down line out after Ryan won it - Seven Irish players on the ground, no Welsh - who brought it down?
24) Pen against Evans for bringing down maul - Even though TV caption said it was for collapsing maul I felt it was for Jones breaking his bind and going offside in the maul for
25) 5m from Welsh line Tipuric does not release, pen awarded but as 3rd infringement in 3 mins and 5m from line should have been YC - Tuporic makes the tackle and releases Jackson and then as the tackler goes for the ball and is completely legal. The tackle assist however does not release and it is a penalty although not as you implied against Tuporic
35) Sexton complains to Barnes after Furlong knock on that Wales not 5m from hindmost foot at scrum, Barnes agrees but just talks to Biggar - Sexton spoke to Barnes during a break in play. What do you think he should do? TMO. Barnes spoke to Biggar. When a captain (which Sexton is not) speaks to a ref about various things it's not to look for retrospective penalties (with the possible exception of foul play) but hopefully to gain future penalties
37) Sexton tackles J.Davies who then with 2 other welsh pins Sexton down, acknowledge that it was close to line but think it occurred more from JD action than attempt by Sexton to slow ball - Sexton was pinned but he made zero effort to roll away. Always a penalty and literally on the line always a yellow card.
49) Heaslip wins line out and Jake Ball brings down maul, pen awarded - Yes
55) Toner wins line out and AW Jones brings it down -Toner transferred the ball immediately but the carrier was then tackled immediately. It was not a maul.
55) High tackle by Biggar on Ringrose, pen awarded - Soft pen - would not have got one for it last season but a penalty
65) North nudged Kearney off ball after Sexton Garryowen - . You obviously reviewed this on RTE as you are using Ryle's descriptions whether right or wrong. Eased off rather than nudged. Possible penalty. I'd be whining if it was awarded against me but would be looking for one in my favour.
66) Heaslip created maul with POM at back so first Tipuric then Owens bring it down - Tuporic tackles Heaslip. Heaslip stands up in the tackle to form the maul. Tuporic did not bring the maul down. He is on the ground as he attempted to tackle Heaslip but he did not collapse the maul. I felt the Irish went to ground themselves after splintering off. Again no Welsh on the ground apart from Tuporic who was not near where the maul went down and Owens who is 2 metres behind the maul when it goes down.
71) Sexton crosskick to Zebo but North & Halpenny kill ball - Should have been a penalty. Neither the tackler or tackle assist released Zebo before attempting the steal

Have another look.

Thanks NZ Nil (Sorry can't bring myself to use the word All Blacks as I believe it is part of their psychological advantage). I will review again.

As I have already said above (not copied) many of the decisions can be debated and some are more serious than others. Also after watching the 42.ie comments by EOS I understand the Sexton YC & some other decisions a bit better now and Ireland have engineered YC's for opposition in the past as j.Davies did. I would still maintain North should have got YC on 14 mins after Stander's run as he holds Zebo & does not roll away near the line. It is a fairly similar incident to Sexton's YC as it was close to line & slowed down ball.

Anyway the main reason we got beaten by Wales was that we could not convert dominant possession & territory into points, and also our line out was not at same efficiency as against France. I hope Payne is sufficiently fit for England and realise we must cope with Ford/Farrell as dual playmakers. We also have to have min 3 lineout jumpers to cope with Launchbury, Lawes & Itoje and POM looks best of back row at getting up quickly. He was the only one who could disrupt Tipuric.

[FLIP]

The in coming player has no responsibility to actually let the player up, but must not prevent the above happening - which means they need to tackle the player first before attempting to steal the ball - hence why they will often wait.

No responsibility to let him up but must not prevent same. In other words, let him up.
Compare Davis on Sexton with Henshaw on North in the first minute and you will see a perfect illustration how to and how not to act in the position. In fairness to Henshaw he obviously realised he was wrong and got off as quick as he could. However he did transgress

(a) Falling over the player on the ground with the ball. A player must not intentionally fall on or over a player with the ball who is lying on the ground.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Wrong again FLIP

Another basic law.

There's a difference between falling on a player to prevent them playing the ball, and actually tackling him. I wouldn't expect someone of your intelligence to understand the difference.

[All Blacks nil]

How can you tackle a player that is not on their feet?

You can't, hence you fall on him.