Ireland XV Nov.2017 looking to RWC

[neiliog93]

Do we need some big changes?

Something like this perhaps:

1.Healy 2.Scannell 3.Furlong

4.Toner 5.Henderson

6.POM 8.Stander 7.Leavy

9.Murray 10.Sexton 12.Henshaw 13.Ringrose 14.Earls (only just turning 32 for RWC)

11.Gilroy 15.Zebo (assuming he recovers his pace)

16.S.Cronin 17.J.McGrath 18.J.Ryan 19.Dillane 20.Conan/VDF 21.Marmion 22.Jackson 23.Conway/A.Byrne/TOL

[Ruckedtobits]

Not too many big changes there. Not recommending them yet but big changes would be:
15. OHalloran; 14.Byrne; 13. Olding; 12. Ringrose; 11. Sweetnam; 10. Carbery; 9 Marmion.
1. McGrath; 2. Scannell; 3. Furlong; 4. Roux; 5. Toner; 6. Stander; 7. Leavy; 8. Conan

It won't happen, it shouldn't happen but it makes as much sense as some of the suggestions of the past 12 hours.

[munster#1]

Worth remembering that Aki and Tyler will be Irish soon. Both look likely to be in the Irish match day 23.

[simonokeeffe]

theres a big Bundee Aki shaped elephant in the room

[Oldschool]

Do we need some big changes?

Something like this perhaps:

1.Healy 2.Scannell 3.Furlong

4.Toner 5.Henderson

6.POM 8.Stander 7.Leavy

9.Murray 10.Sexton 12.Henshaw 13.Ringrose 14.Earls (only just turning 32 for RWC)

11.Gilroy 15.Zebo (assuming he recovers his pace)

16.S.Cronin 17.J.McGrath 18.J.Ryan 19.Dillane 20.Conan/VDF 21.Marmion 22.Jackson 23.Conway/A.Byrne/TOL

It's certainly a way to look at the RWC.
Where we are to where we're likely to be or need to be.

[ronk]

Jordan Murphy will be fit again too

[Golf Man]

Do we need some big changes?

Something like this perhaps:

1.Healy 2.Scannell 3.Furlong

4.Toner 5.Henderson

6.POM 8.Stander 7.Leavy

9.Murray 10.Sexton 12.Henshaw 13.Ringrose 14.Earls (only just turning 32 for RWC)

11.Gilroy 15.Zebo (assuming he recovers his pace)

16.S.Cronin 17.J.McGrath 18.J.Ryan 19.Dillane 20.Conan/VDF 21.Marmion 22.Jackson 23.Conway/A.Byrne/TOL

Not sure about the changes you've suggested but we do need some - the summer and autumn games this year should see a bit of an overhaul

I'd like to see guys like Sweetnam/Byrne/Olding/Stockdale/Carberry/O Halloran being backed in the back line - not necessarily starting. Conan/VDF/Leavy/Dillane upfront. Most importantly we need to change the approach - ideally introduce a second playmaker in the backline. I'd kind of like us to hitch on to Olding the way we have with Ringrose, I think himself and Henshaw could be a great partnership

I actually don't see a lot of these changes happening - it will be disappointing if we take a load of these younger guys to Japan/US and then just slot in the usual suspects in the autumn. Central contracts also to be considered and I wouldn't be discarding older guys. That said I would like a wider view taken in the next year or so - if we keep with the same style we are not going to improve - some of the personnel needs to be changed

[LeRouxIsPHat]

My backrow would be...

6. POM
7. Leavy
8. Stander

20. Conan

Not a hope of it happening and I won't complain if it doesn't but I want to see at least one change anyway. I'll be disappointed if Leavy isn't involved in some capacity. I think with the options we have we need to rotate and experiment a bit in order to find the right balance. So the backrow I picked isn't necessarily the best one available, but I'd like to see how POM and Stander combine at international level, how Stander does at 8, how Leavy does at international level, and Conan just deserves to be rewarded for his form. TBH I reckon that POM would be better with either VDF or SOB on the other flank but like I said I'd just like to see how that combination would go.

Aside from that I'd definitely start Healy and Payne, but not sure where I'd start Payne. I guess the question really is whether you back Ringrose to cope with the English midfield and if the game will help or hinder his development. I really can't decide on that one.

One thing I'm sure of is that with the championship the way it is I would rather lose and find an extra dimension to our game than win and be back to square one in November.

Edit: Whoops, meant to put that in that match thread.

[Ruckedtobits]

Trying to imagine what our RWC2019 Squad might look like at this point with a Tour to Japan followed by Autumn games against S Africa, Argentina and a Tier 2 opponent. Next years 6N and Autumn and the 2019 6N, so something like 18-20 internationals.

Possibly something like this:

Full Backs: O'Halloran; Zebo
Wings: Sweetnam, Byrne A, Earls
Centres: Henshaw, Aki, Olding, Ringrose
Outhalves: Sexton, Carbery, Bleyandal
Scrumhalves: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
Props: McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Porter
Hookers: Scannell, Cronin, Heffernan
Second-rows: Toner, Ryan D, Henderson, Treadwell
Flankers: O'Mahony, Leavy, Stander, Van der Flyer
No 8: Heaslip, Conan

Lots of competition almost everywhere and lots of games for some younger faces to jump up. Seven uncapped players in the list above, but no real bolters except possibly Cooney, Heffernan and Treadwell. They could be McGrath, Treacy or McCartney and Ryan J or Dillane.

The depth is improving and there is pace emerging for the back three, with plenty or creation and strength at half-back and midfield.

[simonokeeffe]

Trying to imagine what our RWC2019 Squad might look like at this point with a Tour to Japan followed by Autumn games against S Africa, Argentina and a Tier 2 opponent. Next years 6N and Autumn and the 2019 6N, so something like 18-20 internationals.

Possibly something like this:

Full Backs: O'Halloran; Zebo
Wings: Sweetnam, Byrne A, Earls
Centres: Henshaw, Aki, Olding, Ringrose
Outhalves: Sexton, Carbery, Bleyandal
Scrumhalves: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
Props: McGrath, Healy, Furlong, Porter
Hookers: Scannell, Cronin, Heffernan
Second-rows: Toner, Ryan D, Henderson, Treadwell
Flankers: O'Mahony, Leavy, Stander, Van der Flyer
No 8: Heaslip, Conan

Lots of competition almost everywhere and lots of games for some younger faces to jump up. Seven uncapped players in the list above, but no real bolters except possibly Cooney, Heffernan and Treadwell. They could be McGrath, Treacy or McCartney and Ryan J or Dillane.

The depth is improving and there is pace emerging for the back three, with plenty or creation and strength at half-back and midfield.

Jared Payne is an interesting one on age, turns 34 in the middle of the RWC

[Ruckedtobits]

@sok, age was the factor in omitting Payne and McCartney at hooker. Thought about Doonchadh Ryan but he is maturing with age really well and because of injuries, not too much on the clock.

Worried about Jamie and J10 but both are really invaluable and will be managed between now and RWC, because of quality in their positions. Unfortunately, can't see SO'B lasting that long because of how he plays.

[dropkick]

Of the players excluded from the current squad. I think the following could be contenders.

Porter, Buckley, James Cronin,
Tracy,
James Ryan, Gallagher
Leavy, Conan, Conor Oliver, Sean O'Brien (Connacht),
Carbery, Hanrahan, R Byrne
Kerins
O'Loughlin, Olding, McCloskey, R Scannell, C Farrell
Sweetnam, Stockdale, Byrne, O'Halloran, Kelleher, Larmour


There'll be plenty of others spring up in the next year or two plus ( ) project players.

[munster#1]

Jean Kleyn qualifies in July 2019 AFAIK.

[simonokeeffe]

@sok, age was the factor in omitting Payne and McCartney at hooker. Thought about Doonchadh Ryan but he is maturing with age really well and because of injuries, not too much on the clock.

Worried about Jamie and J10 but both are really invaluable and will be managed between now and RWC, because of quality in their positions. Unfortunately, can't see SO'B lasting that long because of how he plays.

McCartney will just turn 34 before RWC which is not old for a hooker, can see him going ahead of Heffernan if he stays ahead of him for Connacht

Heaslip and Johnny are in that awakward (age) position of hopefully theyll amke it, not definitive either way. SOB also at risk of losing his place if he misses from injury even if he still plays then

[ronk]

It's hard to predict players ageing out of contention both because there are large variances and other major factors like injuries and the development of replacements.

It's usually better to look at who'll push out the older players. Payne might still be able to do the job at 13 in two years time, but he'll have Ringrose with 2 years of developing, Aki any maybe others.

[MunsterSugar]

Everyone forget Chris Farrell is returning and Schmidt was a massive part in getting him back. He was active in getting him back and in contact telling him what to work on etc