Donnacha Ryan to Racing rumours

[munster#1]

Funny how certain posters pick and choose which unsubstantiated article is acceptable to take as fact.

[janeymac08]

......

His competition was POC. He says himself in that article he reinvented himself as a blindside flanker to make the 2011 world cup (I think he beat Dev Toner to the squad).

I think Schmidt & Nucifora thought that Ryan would never leave Munster as he had struck with Munster through thick and thin and they would get him on the cheap when they needed him.

Ryan called their bluff.

According to Murray Kinsella, Ryan wanted out of his contract last year. Your line of thinking doesn't really add up. What/when were the thick and thin parts that Ryan stuck with Munster?

When he was behind POC, DOC & MOD. He turned down an offer by Cheika in 2006 to move to Leinster where he would have been a first choice lock with Mal.

[janeymac08]

Peter O'Reilly in ST really adding fuel to this topic today as he suggests that DR sought a move to Leinster last Season (ostensively because his girlfriend was based in Dublin) and then declined to negotiate with IRFU / Munster after November window this Season, whilst Jamie did just that.

Pretty heady stuff if true. PO'R also links Ryan's decision making with the future of Rassie in Munster and he, fairly strongly, links the dots to Rassie taking Springbok job imminently.

Any know why he didn't move to Leinster or did Leinster not want him? You would imagine Nucifora & Schmidt would have been all for having Toner and Ryan playing together, just like how they were happy that Henshaw moved to Leinster because he could build up a good playing partnerhship with Sexton.

[Munsterboy]

Any know why he didn't move to Leinster or did Leinster not want him? You would imagine Nucifora & Schmidt would have been all for having Toner and Ryan playing together, just like how they were happy that Henshaw moved to Leinster because he could build up a good playing partnerhship with Sexton.

Smells like bullshit to me. It makes no sense that either the IRFU would have blocked it or Leinster wouldn't have jumped at the chance to sign him. Leo knows a hard b$&%@#d of a second row when he sees one.

Munster people are pissed off that the IRFU have f%~ked up and are losing him to Racing. What better way to counter that anger than to paint him as a disloyal player who wanted to move to the Pale? It's spin.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Any know why he didn't move to Leinster or did Leinster not want him? You would imagine Nucifora & Schmidt would have been all for having Toner and Ryan playing together, just like how they were happy that Henshaw moved to Leinster because he could build up a good playing partnerhship with Sexton.

Smells like bullshit to me. It makes no sense that either the IRFU would have blocked it or Leinster wouldn't have jumped at the chance to sign him. Leo knows a hard b$&%@#d of a second row when he sees one.

Munster people are pissed off that the IRFU have f%~ked up and are losing him to Racing. What better way to counter that anger than to paint him as a disloyal player who wanted to move to the Pale? It's spin.

DR is not and never was a disloyal player, he wanted out of Munster mid contract - the refusal to let a provincial player break a contract to move to another province is very plausible as on a system level how would you control a playing staff if they knew they had the option to break contract and leave for another province unilaterally - also very likely that Munster branch and any of their reps in IRFU would block such a move.

[fourthirtythree]

Something something, Andrew Conway, something...

Different kettle of fish I know, but they can let someone break a contract when they want/don't care that much.
Anyway, Ryan they can replace, hard, but they can.

Erasmus is a different kettle of fish. Gutted for them if this is true http://www.the42.ie/rassie-erasmus-sout ... 4-Apr2017/

[Golf Man]

Lot of guff flowing around on this - from all sides - simple fact is that we don't know

One thing that puts a lot of doubt on those IRFU reports though - the suggestion that if he had negotiated in November a central contract was on the table but now it isn't - hard to believe thats not rubbish - his stock has risen since November, very hard to see what has changed for him to be in a worse position?

He will be a massive loss and don't see Schmidt selecting him - he is not at the top top level that demands exception from the approach of selection of overseas based players a la Sexton (very few in that position at the moment apart from Sexton and Murray) - selecting him could open the floodgates a bit.

Not to make it a Heaslip thing but looking at Conan at the weekend and Stander obviously - certainly don't think we should be hitching ourselves to Heaslip for the next two years

[fourthirtythree]

You don't *have* to select a player because he's on a central contract, the IRFU can call who they want up from the system and enforce the same player game time management protocols. Which they do all the time.

[Edna Kenny]

I was thinking there whilst watching the game on Saturday, Triggs to Munster might make sense if he's leaving us. Thought he had a great game, he was popping up everywhere. He seems to like Ireland. Might be a good fit in the circumstances.

[Cor. Ind.]

Drole de drame...

[wixfjord]

Murray Kinsella said the same thing last week about Ryan wanting to move last year.

[Cor. Ind.]

DR is not and never was a disloyal player, he wanted out of Munster mid contract

...

[janeymac08]

Any know why he didn't move to Leinster or did Leinster not want him? You would imagine Nucifora & Schmidt would have been all for having Toner and Ryan playing together, just like how they were happy that Henshaw moved to Leinster because he could build up a good playing partnerhship with Sexton.

Smells like bullshit to me. It makes no sense that either the IRFU would have blocked it or Leinster wouldn't have jumped at the chance to sign him. Leo knows a hard b$&%@#d of a second row when he sees one.

Munster people are pissed off that the IRFU have f%~ked up and are losing him to Racing. What better way to counter that anger than to paint him as a disloyal player who wanted to move to the Pale? It's spin.

DR is not and never was a disloyal player, he wanted out of Munster mid contract - the refusal to let a provincial player break a contract to move to another province is very plausible as on a system level how would you control a playing staff if they knew they had the option to break contract and leave for another province unilaterally - also very likely that Munster branch and any of their reps in IRFU would block such a move.

POC was allowed leave Munster mid contract. James Coughlan was allowed leave mid contract, Plumtree was allowed leave mid-contract. Tony McGahan was allowed leave mid-contract, DOC was allowed leave mid contract.

Leaving mid-contract isn't exactly new within Irish rugby. Is Ryan the first player to be refused.

[Munsterboy]

It's illogical that the IRFU would block it at all. It tends to be counter productive because stopping an unhappy player from moving within the system generally results in them leaving the system altogether.

Howeve, even if they did block it back then, why wouldn't it be happening now instead? I'm sure Leinster would still like to have him instead of an NIQ and he wouldn't have been breaking a contract with Munster.

It doesn't add up. Fact remains he'd probably be staying in Ireland if the IRFU had offered a CC. They didn't and he isn't. That's bad for Irish and Muster rugby and it's on them.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

If he left Munster they'd have had to replace him though.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Smells like bullshit to me. It makes no sense that either the IRFU would have blocked it or Leinster wouldn't have jumped at the chance to sign him. Leo knows a hard b$&%@#d of a second row when he sees one.

Munster people are pissed off that the IRFU have f%~ked up and are losing him to Racing. What better way to counter that anger than to paint him as a disloyal player who wanted to move to the Pale? It's spin.

DR is not and never was a disloyal player, he wanted out of Munster mid contract - the refusal to let a provincial player break a contract to move to another province is very plausible as on a system level how would you control a playing staff if they knew they had the option to break contract and leave for another province unilaterally - also very likely that Munster branch and any of their reps in IRFU would block such a move.

POC was allowed leave Munster mid contract. James Coughlan was allowed leave mid contract, Plumtree was allowed leave mid-contract. Tony McGahan was allowed leave mid-contract, DOC was allowed leave mid contract.

Leaving mid-contract isn't exactly new within Irish rugby. Is Ryan the first player to be refused.

None of the above players left to play with another province in Ireland. There's a huge difference between going abroad and going to another province.

[Oldschoolsocks]

DR is not and never was a disloyal player, he wanted out of Munster mid contract

...

Wanting to break a contract is not disloyal. Disloyal would be wanting to break a contract and if not allowed to then not performing to the best of your abilities for your province.

So DR gave his heart and souls for Munster Rugby for the duration of his contract even though he had intimated he wanted out - far from being disloyal it is in fact very loyal.

[Oldschoolsocks]

DR is not and never was a disloyal player, he wanted out of Munster mid contract - the refusal to let a provincial player break a contract to move to another province is very plausible as on a system level how would you control a playing staff if they knew they had the option to break contract and leave for another province unilaterally - also very likely that Munster branch and any of their reps in IRFU would block such a move.

POC was allowed leave Munster mid contract. James Coughlan was allowed leave mid contract, Plumtree was allowed leave mid-contract. Tony McGahan was allowed leave mid-contract, DOC was allowed leave mid contract.

Leaving mid-contract isn't exactly new within Irish rugby. Is Ryan the first player to be refused.

None of the above players left to play with another province in Ireland. There's a huge difference between going abroad and going to another province.

EDIT - you'll also note that the POC and Coughlan moves were bilateral agreed, not unilateral .

[janeymac08]

None of the above players left to play with another province in Ireland. There's a huge difference between going abroad and going to another province.

EDIT - you'll also note that the POC and Coughlan moves were bilateral agreed, not unilateral .

So, the IRFU would prefer to lose a top Irish player to a foreign club (who the Provinces will probably be competing against) rather than move them to another Province?

Something seriously wrong with that thinking.

[Oldschoolsocks]

None of the above players left to play with another province in Ireland. There's a huge difference between going abroad and going to another province.

EDIT - you'll also note that the POC and Coughlan moves were bilateral agreed, not unilateral .

So, the IRFU would prefer to lose a top Irish player to a foreign club (who the Provinces will probably be competing against) rather than move them to another Province?

Something seriously wrong with that thinking.

Hold on, so what you're trying to say is that the IRFU knew that Donnacha Ryan would sign for a foreign club if he was not allowed move to Leinster?

If that's what you're trying to say that in itself is as backwards an argument as I've ever seen.