Either way I do think the scoreline reflected the teams on the day so I don't think it had a huge bearing on the result, it was just frustrating to watch some of it. Maybe it helped Clermont gain some momentum at times, but we should have been able to cope with that anyway.
I disagree. Other than the the 1st 15 and the last 10, we were by far the more dangerous looking side. We had the better of the chances from 15 minutes on. If we had gained territory after Ringers try we would have scored again. That is why that ruck on 70 mins was so crucial. Fritz Lee was their best forward on the day but he was lucky to get that penalty...especially when you see it from the ground level camera; he holds on long after he is off his feet causing the Leinster players to panic and pile in......frustrating but that's rugby. I'm not blaming Nigel; we gave ourselves too much to do with the bad start.
We lost because we didn't execute the chances we created e.g. Triggs twice while Nigel was playing advantage; Ringrose / Carbery mistiming their pass / catch in first half. On the other hand they executed their chances superbly, Parra triple-skip pass to Strettle; Lopez, both drop goals; Strettle, beating. Leavy and Carbery.
Better team on the day took their chances. The game is about taking chances, not Just making them.
Either way I do think the scoreline reflected the teams on the day so I don't think it had a huge bearing on the result, it was just frustrating to watch some of it. Maybe it helped Clermont gain some momentum at times, but we should have been able to cope with that anyway.
I disagree. Other than the the 1st 15 and the last 10, we were by far the more dangerous looking side. We had the better of the chances from 15 minutes on. If we had gained territory after Ringers try we would have scored again. That is why that ruck on 70 mins was so crucial. Fritz Lee was their best forward on the day but he was lucky to get that penalty...especially when you see it from the ground level camera; he holds on long after he is off his feet causing the Leinster players to panic and pile in......frustrating but that's rugby. I'm not blaming Nigel; we gave ourselves too much to do with the bad start.
I'm not sure I agree with this at all. We were incredibly poor in that opening 15 but even over the course of the rest of the first half we only slowly built our way into the game. We were still making numerous errors. There's no way that we were clearly the more dangerous side for 20-25 mins of that second half and only scored 3 points from it. That break up the left that Carbery lost forward was about the only scoring chance we created for most of the first half. By comparison I thought Clermont looked strong and put some great pace into how they played for good chunks of that half. They had an accuracy that we couldn't match.
In the third quarter it was all Leinster and we did have them rattled, but they rallied well after the disallowed try and got themselves into positions to win the game. And they duly did that. We gave ourselves a shot at winning it, but never really more than that.
Finally got to sit down and watch the game in full on the big screen last night and as always things are different to your memory of being at the game !!
Nigel made a couple of bad calls and did let Clermont run loose at the breakdown to a degree and he wasn't great at policing the offside line (but in fairness his general reffing balance is always to let the game flow and this is to be applauded) but on balance he was fine and he didn't adversely affect the game. We can't have many complaints. Clermont early on were just physically brutal and we didn't respond and looked a little lost in the headlights. Strettle and Parra in particular were outstanding and between tackles and great running lines from Strettle and Parra's kicking into space they put us under huge pressure.
What was hugely impressive though was the way our younger lads worked their way back into the game and absolutely clear that we have the bones of a stunning team there. We bossed Clermont for about 20 minutes in the second half, it was quite amazing to watch back. The weak spots on the day were Strauss (looked totally lost), Toner, Triggs and to a lesser extent McFadden who contributed little. Isa is also clearly coming to the end of his tenure as he up's his physicality to compensate for his slowing footwork and pace and this cost us a couple of big penalties.
I strongly believe if the coaches had backed youth entirely bringing Adam Byrne and Ross Molony into the team along with starting Cronin (with Tracey on the bench) we would have had a different result. Two of the Clermont tries came from appalling Strauss overthrows that put us under monstrous pressure early on when Clermont were in full flow, just what we didn't need. Triggs butchered a couple of chances in the second half not pushing the ball wide enough, quickly enough when we had overlaps and McFadden offered little going forward despite the endeavour.
The brilliance, exuberance and energy of Ringrose, Henshaw, Carberry and the back row trio (Ruddock was absolutely immense in particular) along with Luke and Sexton both playing well really gave us some stunning rugby to enjoy and we could easily have scored 3/4 tries more.
I did however have a feeling watching back that it just wasn't our day - every bounce of the ball, every half chance went Clermont's way and it just wasn't to be. On another day the Strettle kick through would have gone two yards farther, Lopez would have missed one or both drop goals, Leavy's grab on Rougerie would have gone unpunished and the ball on the very first kickoff would have bounced and been snagged by a Leinster player for a try instead. Any of these things could have swung the game and we just had one of those days !!
Next year injecting Fardy into the second row, Lowe into the backfield and with the huge learning experiences gained for the rest of this young team we have every chance to get that fourth star and perhaps not facing Saracens this year (they appear to be at their peak) in the final is a good thing !!
And please please please can this coaching panel trust youth always and remember experience does not beat talent. Talent always wins !!
We are in a super position once again and I'm hugely positive about where we are. The MOC days are well and truly behind us thankfully.......
As a footnote thought Rougerie used every ounce of experience when Leavy was holding his foot at the base of that infamous ruck - many players would have just pulled the foot out and got on with it but he carefully and cleverly milked that one and showed real intelligence and taught Leavy a lesson !!
Good luck to Clermont in the final but I do fear for them..........
Roll on next year and let's snag the Pro 12 title in the meantime !!
Blueberry wrote:Finally got to sit down and watch the game in full on the big screen last night and as always things are different to your memory of being at the game !!
Nigel made a couple of bad calls and did let Clermont run loose at the breakdown to a degree and he wasn't great at policing the offside line (but in fairness his general reffing balance is always to let the game flow and this is to be applauded) but on balance he was fine and he didn't adversely affect the game. We can't have many complaints. Clermont early on were just physically brutal and we didn't respond and looked a little lost in the headlights. Strettle and Parra in particular were outstanding and between tackles and great running lines from Strettle and Parra's kicking into space they put us under huge pressure.
What was hugely impressive though was the way our younger lads worked their way back into the game and absolutely clear that we have the bones of a stunning team there. We bossed Clermont for about 20 minutes in the second half, it was quite amazing to watch back. The weak spots on the day were Strauss (looked totally lost), Toner, Triggs and to a lesser extent McFadden who contributed little. Isa is also clearly coming to the end of his tenure as he up's his physicality to compensate for his slowing footwork and pace and this cost us a couple of big penalties.
I strongly believe if the coaches had backed youth entirely bringing Adam Byrne and Ross Molony into the team along with starting Cronin (with Tracey on the bench) we would have had a different result. Two of the Clermont tries came from appalling Strauss overthrows that put us under monstrous pressure early on when Clermont were in full flow, just what we didn't need. Triggs butchered a couple of chances in the second half not pushing the ball wide enough, quickly enough when we had overlaps and McFadden offered little going forward despite the endeavour.
The brilliance, exuberance and energy of Ringrose, Henshaw, Carberry and the back row trio (Ruddock was absolutely immense in particular) along with Luke and Sexton both playing well really gave us some stunning rugby to enjoy and we could easily have scored 3/4 tries more.
I did however have a feeling watching back that it just wasn't our day - every bounce of the ball, every half chance went Clermont's way and it just wasn't to be. On another day the Strettle kick through would have gone two yards farther, Lopez would have missed one or both drop goals, Leavy's grab on Rougerie would have gone unpunished and the ball on the very first kickoff would have bounced and been snagged by a Leinster player for a try instead. Any of these things could have swung the game and we just had one of those days !!
Next year injecting Fardy into the second row, Lowe into the backfield and with the huge learning experiences gained for the rest of this young team we have every chance to get that fourth star and perhaps not facing Saracens this year (they appear to be at their peak) in the final is a good thing !!
And please please please can this coaching panel trust youth always and remember experience does not beat talent. Talent always wins !!
We are in a super position once again and I'm hugely positive about where we are. The MOC days are well and truly behind us thankfully.......
As a footnote thought Rougerie used every ounce of experience when Leavy was holding his foot at the base of that infamous ruck - many players would have just pulled the foot out and got on with it but he carefully and cleverly milked that one and showed real intelligence and taught Leavy a lesson !!
Good luck to Clermont in the final but I do fear for them..........
Roll on next year and let's snag the Pro 12 title in the meantime !!
Almost agree with you @Blueberry, except that, like Kilkenny hurling panel, it's essential that Leo reward performance with selection on close calls in order to maintain the competitiveness within the Squad.
IMO, Ferg got the nod over Adam Byrne because of his performance against Wasps. Isa's selection was captaincy and Joey-related. I certainly don't believe in youth at all costs, but am delighted to see them selected when their performance, not their potential, warrants.
Clermont returned to Lyon yesterday in Top14 with a totally changed team i.e. none of the same starters and only two of the bench. One try and five pens in a 20-23 win. Clermont have recovered their bottle.
Ruckedtobits wrote:Clermont returned to Lyon yesterday in Top14 with a totally changed team i.e. none of the same starters and only two of the bench. One try and five pens in a 20-23 win. Clermont have recovered their bottle.
Six pens.
Important, deserved but lucky win (avoiding a Lyon try at the last second)
We could finally rank second if La Rochelle beats Montpellier today and if we beat La Rochelle next week. We did'nt expect this anymore after the home loss vs Brive.
It would avoid a play off game (the second goes'in SF, the 3rd plays a play QF vs the 6th)
Ruckedtobits wrote:Clermont returned to Lyon yesterday in Top14 with a totally changed team i.e. none of the same starters and only two of the bench. One try and five pens in a 20-23 win. Clermont have recovered their bottle.
Six pens.
Important, deserved but lucky win (avoiding a Lyon try at the last second)
We could finally rank second if La Rochelle beats Montpellier today and if we beat La Rochelle next week. We did'nt expect this anymore after the home loss vs Brive.
It would avoid a play off game (the second goes'in SF, the 3rd plays a QF vs the 6th)
Still sick from losing this game. I know I should be supporting ASM in the final but I'm afraid I just can't get behind a team containing M. Parra. Think I'll be washing my hair for this one.
PS completely agree with Molloyjh's assessment above
Hippo wrote:Still sick from losing this game. I know I should be supporting ASM in the final but I'm afraid I just can't get behind a team containing M. Parra. Think I'll be washing my hair for this one.
PS completely agree with Molloyjh's assessment above
Parra played a great game. If he did'nt you could be supporting Leinster vs Saracens.
Hippo wrote:Still sick from losing this game. I know I should be supporting ASM in the final but I'm afraid I just can't get behind a team containing M. Parra. Think I'll be washing my hair for this one.
PS completely agree with Molloyjh's assessment above
Parra played a great game. If he did'nt you could be supporting Leinster vs Saracens.
