Pro 14 - General Thread

[Dave Cahill]

if anyone wants to see a massacre go to Kings wikipedia page

26 players have left, including all bar one of their locks, backrowers, and scrumhalves

seems like a good chunk of their squad was on loan from other super rugby sides to begin with

?

There are, for example, 7 locks currently listed on the Kings wikipedia page along with a plethera in the other positions you mention

[scentofgunpowder]

Kings have signed Cornal Hendricks, Dries van Schalwyk, and Sti Sithole.

[simonokeeffe]

@blueblue he means pro14 or thats their only hope, they aint playing anywhere else

@dc slight error on my part, super rugby 17 18 transfer page has the departures listed. Team pages not updated

Kings have signed Cornal Hendricks, Dries van Schalwyk, and Sti Sithole.

Hendricks was meant to join Toulon last season but failed the medical

[kermischocolate]

@blueblue he means pro14 or thats their only hope, they aint playing anywhere else

@dc slight error on my part, super rugby 17 18 transfer page has the departures listed. Team pages not updated

Kings have signed Cornal Hendricks, Dries van Schalwyk, and Sti Sithole.

Hendricks was meant to join Toulon last season but failed the medical

Any idea what for?

Last time he was in Glasgow he was winning Gold medals.

[neiliog93]

Does anyone else feel that European media's sceptical reaction to the South African sides (especially the Kings with their later season form) betrays a lot of ignorance of Super Rugby, and even a strange superiority complex? (Strange coming from NH media looking at the SH). I'm not saying the Saffer teams are world beaters and they might not make the play-offs, but they're certainly better than the Italian sides, Dragons, Edinburgh and probably Cardiff an Connacht.

[simonokeeffe]

@kerm cant find an exact reason from January when it happened, he was retired for 2016 with a heart condition

@neil Cheetahs yes, when they bring full squad to bear. CC might hurt them but Bok callups definitely will have a big impact. Kings lost their entire roster so theyll be spanked back to the stoneage

[wixfjord]

Does anyone else feel that European media's sceptical reaction to the South African sides (especially the Kings with their later season form) betrays a lot of ignorance of Super Rugby, and even a strange superiority complex? (Strange coming from NH media looking at the SH). I'm not saying the Saffer teams are world beaters and they might not make the play-offs, but they're certainly better than the Italian sides, Dragons, Edinburgh and probably Cardiff an Connacht.

Based on what?
Cheetahs will be likely competing with Embra, Cardiff, Connacht, Ospreys and Ulster for 5th/6th.
Kings are dogshit. There's nothing to say they're better than Embra, Cardiff and Connacht.

[scentofgunpowder]

Kings squad so far:

Berton Klaasen, Bobby de Wee, CJ Velleman, Cornal Hendricks, Dries van Schalkwyk, Jacques Nel, Jarryd Sage, Khaya Majola, Lubabalo Mtyanda, Lusanda Badiyana, Masixole Banda, Ntabeni Dukisa, Oliver Zono, Pieter-Steyn de Wet, Rowan Gouws, Sbusiso Sithole, Schalk Ferreira, Stephan Greeff, Tango Balekile, Tienie Burger, Victor Sekekete, Yaw Penxe, Kurt Coleman

[simonokeeffe]

Kings squad so far:

Berton Klaasen, Bobby de Wee, CJ Velleman, Cornal Hendricks, Dries van Schalkwyk, Jacques Nel, Jarryd Sage, Khaya Majola, Lubabalo Mtyanda, Lusanda Badiyana, Masixole Banda, Ntabeni Dukisa, Oliver Zono, Pieter-Steyn de Wet, Rowan Gouws, Sbusiso Sithole, Schalk Ferreira, Stephan Greeff, Tango Balekile, Tienie Burger, Victor Sekekete, Yaw Penxe, Kurt Coleman

Well its 23 players

[Dave Cahill]

They have the pick of the griquas and mpumalanga also

[simonokeeffe]

They have the pick of the griquas and mpumalanga also

After Currie Cup though presumably

[Dave Cahill]

Another bunch of players from Sharks and Bulls have joined the Kings

[TerenureJim]

Another bunch of players from Sharks and Bulls have joined the Kings

Interesting, are we seeing the first steps from SA to try to move fully NH?

[simonokeeffe]

Another bunch of players from Sharks and Bulls have joined the Kings

Interesting, are we seeing the first steps from SA to try to move fully NH?

Nope

The 4 Bulls players are joining for the season on loan; theyre not expecting to need them for Currie Cup or Super Rugby. They only retained rights to recall one of the four

[Dave Cahill]

Another bunch of players from Sharks and Bulls have joined the Kings

Interesting, are we seeing the first steps from SA to try to move fully NH?

Nope

The 4 Bulls players are joining for the season on loan; theyre not expecting to need them for Currie Cup or Super Rugby. They only retained rights to recall one of the four

Kings have first call on any player in any union not a member of the South African Elite player squad

[rooster]

These SA sides could be a lot tougher than some people are giving them credit for.

[simonokeeffe]

that for CC or Super Rugby? I would be surprised if the latter was the case

How big is that squad?

[BlueBlue]

Regarding the media being negative toward Pro14 expansion, I personally couldnt care less what the media think, a few of them with very large ego's have withheld their blessing of the Pro12 for the last 17 years. Besides, the coverage ive read is mainly positive and excited.

As for the Kings, yes they lost a lot of players as the future was uncertain, normal no ? Its easy to read into 8 players from sharks/ Bulls being loaned as not impressive but on the other hand it looks to me like the SA Union are working to strenghten the squad by moving their resources around. Is this not what they promised the existing Pro12 that they would do, that they would have competitive sides. These 2 SA teams are 2 of 6 top level SA sides, South Africa is a tier 1 nation and one of the largest rugby markets in the world, with large playing numbers to match. They also need to bring in more none white players, do they do this by reducing the number of white players or by increasing the numbers of professional players coming through in total, they have chosen to increase professional playing numbers.

The SAU's stated goal is to have 8 professional sides, 4 playing in the North, 4 playing in the south. It may take a while to get there, but I think these sides will be competitive.

Someone on here asked are the SA making a serious move north ? Is that even a serious question, they have made a huge committment to Pro14 rugby, the 2 SA teams, put money up in terms of a TV deal and in terms of supporting these unions, 5 or 6 unions make up both of these SA teams. Yes SA are making a seriuous move North, not a lock-stock and barrel move, but a serious move. This puts them in a very serious position in SANZAAR, where the other 2 have traditionally ganged together, SA have long thought their deal/ treatment in SANZAAR unfair.

The IRFU / Pro12 unions being in bed with another top tier union also strenghtens our position in ERPC negociations. During AP english club flirting with welsh clubs during the welsh civil war, the welsh clubs treatrened to leave the Pro12. If that happened again, its more unlikly now with more WRU control, but if they did leave or the 2 italian teams left /went bust, with the SA teams on board we would still have a viable league reduced to 12, or 12 / 14 with 2 to 4 SA teams included.

In the future I predict the AP increasing to 14 teams, the Top14 staying at 14 , Europe could be made up of 3 leagues of 14 teams with the Champions Cup incresing back to 6 pools rather than 5. I believe the english clubs are in a real pickle because they have 14 AP stakeholders (not 12) 12 current AP clubs plus 2 in the championship, they need to cut the championship adrift and get rid of promotion and regulation, let the RFU manage and support the championship. In the AP's current position they are hobbled because of the attachment to the championship and having 14 stakeholders, the option for example of taking in 2 SA teams was never open to them, how could they include 2 SA teams and exclude 2 existing stakeholders. The English AP wants/ needs to expand, they wont be able to stop our expansion and our expaned teams having the right to play in europe, when the next negociation takes place in 1 year.

The other thing that people are not considering is the difficulty of playing NH and SH, that alone will make the 2 SA teams competitive at home.

Its going to be very difficult all round. But interesting.

[dropkick]

I'd say the South African move has taken the English by surprise. Make no mistake about it they'd prefer if the pro14 is seen as the little brother to themselves and the French leagues. We all know that clubs are rivals but so are leagues. The wealthier the English and French leagues get, the more damaging it will be to the pro14 and vice versa.

I bet they're watching pro14 developments very closely, especially the English and it wouldn't surprise me to see them make some sort of move in the coming years by luring South African teams to their league or something like that. I think they've already started the process by inviting South African sides to take part in the Anglo Welsh cup. As you say Blueblue, it could be awkward because of their shareholders.

[TerenureJim]

Anyone else think the marketing team at Guinness must have been dying for an Italian or Welsh side to go bust after the SA move, instead of the Guinness Pro14 we could have been the Hop House 13.