Ulster 2018-2019

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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby BlueBlue » June 14th, 2018, 10:42 am

Aird wrote:So much for the comments on this site lauding Gibbes as a great bloke.

He was released from his contract because his mother was allegedly Terminally Ill and taking a job at Waikato to be close at hand.
I know that theoretically La Rochelle is closer to NZ but by the time he travels to Paris to get his flight there is nothing significant in the time savings.

Together with Afoa it doesn't show Kiwi's in a very good light.


In his defence, his number 1 priority was to get the hell out of Ulster. Can you blame him, 3 weeks later Ulster might fire him because the players have decided to take over, or if he makes it to a Euro final he might be sacked in public, before the final and then made to apologise later for being unhappy about it. Gibbes didn't create the disaster that is Ulster Rugby, why would he risk his reputation pushing what looks to be mercury up a hill with a fork.

Anyway Gibbes is likely to send a lot of time with his mother, have time off, travel back and forth between France and NZ many times before the new Ulster coach takes up his 1st training session. That again is Ulster's making.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Dave Cahill » June 14th, 2018, 10:46 am

BlueBlue wrote:Anyway Gibbes is likely to send a lot of time with his mother, have time off, travel back and forth between France and NZ many times before the new Ulster coach takes up his 1st training session. That again is Ulster's making.


Eh, what now? How is that Ulster's making?
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 14th, 2018, 10:48 am

Aird wrote:He was released from his contract because his mother was allegedly Terminally Ill and taking a job at Waikato to be close at hand.


Is that actually true though? I've never heard Gibbes mention it and nothing he said even hinted at it. I hate this idea that the rumour has become fact when it doesn't seem plausible to me. Surely he'd be open to Ulster taking a case against him if that was the reason he gave and yet he'll end up back in Europe so soon? I also doubt that he'd go all the way back to NZ to be with his sick mother but still be a full time coach, so I'd have been asking questions about it even if he wasn't signing for LAR. Nothing about the rumour makes sense to me.

Edit: Just to be clear, I know he mentioned family reasons but my point is that lying about a sick mother is such a horrible thing to do that I wouldn't be spreading it unless I was certain it was true.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby BlueBlue » June 14th, 2018, 11:04 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:Anyway Gibbes is likely to send a lot of time with his mother, have time off, travel back and forth between France and NZ many times before the new Ulster coach takes up his 1st training session. That again is Ulster's making.


Eh, what now? How is that Ulster's making?


Hiring a coach and then being disappointed about his starting date, who else made it?

and

I'm being flippant :shock:
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby paddyor » June 14th, 2018, 5:13 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Aird wrote:He was released from his contract because his mother was allegedly Terminally Ill and taking a job at Waikato to be close at hand.


Is that actually true though? I've never heard Gibbes mention it and nothing he said even hinted at it. I hate this idea that the rumour has become fact when it doesn't seem plausible to me. Surely he'd be open to Ulster taking a case against him if that was the reason he gave and yet he'll end up back in Europe so soon? I also doubt that he'd go all the way back to NZ to be with his sick mother but still be a full time coach, so I'd have been asking questions about it even if he wasn't signing for LAR. Nothing about the rumour makes sense to me.

Edit: Just to be clear, I know he mentioned family reasons but my point is that lying about a sick mother is such a horrible thing to do that I wouldn't be spreading it unless I was certain it was true.

He's also taking a job with Waikato and that's why he won't start until November.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Dave Cahill » June 14th, 2018, 5:56 pm

BlueBlue wrote:
Hiring a coach and then being disappointed about his starting date, who else made it?



The IRFU. They thought they could play chicken with the SRU (and maybe get a little revenge for the RWC vote) by leaking his appointment and get him released early. The SRU said "that'll be one extra large bag of cash please".
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 14th, 2018, 6:20 pm

I see Rowntree has left Quins. Probably the wrong thread for this but I wonder if he's another former England coach who could be rehabilitated over here. Maybe Connacht? Obviously things didn't go brilliantly with Quins but if Lancaster and Farrell vouched for him then he could be a good addition somewhere.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Dave Cahill » June 15th, 2018, 12:37 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I see Rowntree has left Quins. Probably the wrong thread for this but I wonder if he's another former England coach who could be rehabilitated over here. Maybe Connacht? Obviously things didn't go brilliantly with Quins but if Lancaster and Farrell vouched for him then he could be a good addition somewhere.



He was pretty well thought of by the guys on the Lions by all accounts
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby sunshiner1 » June 15th, 2018, 9:33 am

by Dave Cahill » June 15th, 2018, 12:37 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
I see Rowntree has left Quins. Probably the wrong thread for this but I wonder if he's another former England coach who could be rehabilitated over here. Maybe Connacht? Obviously things didn't go brilliantly with Quins but if Lancaster and Farrell vouched for him then he could be a good addition somewhere.



He was pretty well thought of by the guys on the Lions by all accounts



I can't see him having a shortage of suitors. Would love to have him attached to the Ireland Under 20's for a season or two.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby BlueBlue » June 15th, 2018, 10:37 am

Dave Cahill wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:
Hiring a coach and then being disappointed about his starting date, who else made it?



The IRFU. They thought they could play chicken with the SRU (and maybe get a little revenge for the RWC vote) by leaking his appointment and get him released early. The SRU said "that'll be one extra large bag of cash please".


No, seeing as you and I don't actually know what happened, not being in the room. We have to speculate or rely on what we hear through other various channels. What I've read is that Ulster got approval for the deal from the IRFU, that's a rubber stamp, its Ulster who carry out Ulster business. After the fact, Ulster came back to the IRFU with the date problem. The IRFU were not at all happy, the relationship with the Scottish being what it is due to the world cup no vote, the Scots are the last people the IRFU would look for a favour or compromise from. And having to give them a bag of money would be stomach turning to the IRFU.

Ulster are responsible for Ulster. The idea that everyone is powerless and just being swept along on an IRFU wind is nonsense. The IRFU need the provinces, Ulster in this case to run their own affairs, the IRFU make sure such management is in line with national teams interest and the health of rugby in general.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Dave Cahill » June 15th, 2018, 11:21 am

BlueBlue wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:
Hiring a coach and then being disappointed about his starting date, who else made it?



The IRFU. They thought they could play chicken with the SRU (and maybe get a little revenge for the RWC vote) by leaking his appointment and get him released early. The SRU said "that'll be one extra large bag of cash please".


No, seeing as you and I don't actually know what happened, not being in the room. We have to speculate or rely on what we hear through other various channels. What I've read is that Ulster got approval for the deal from the IRFU, that's a rubber stamp, its Ulster who carry out Ulster business. After the fact, Ulster came back to the IRFU with the date problem. The IRFU were not at all happy, the relationship with the Scottish being what it is due to the world cup no vote, the Scots are the last people the IRFU would look for a favour or compromise from. And having to give them a bag of money would be stomach turning to the IRFU.

Ulster are responsible for Ulster. The idea that everyone is powerless and just being swept along on an IRFU wind is nonsense. The IRFU need the provinces, Ulster in this case to run their own affairs, the IRFU make sure such management is in line with national teams interest and the health of rugby in general.


Firstly the appointment was leaked by INM - it wasn't a problem until then and everything became public.

Secondly, we know with absolute 100% certainly that Ulster aren't responsible for Ulster. We know this because in the Ospreys playoff Ruan Pienaar wasn't paired with Paddy Jackson at halfback.

The IRFU have a Performance Director in place who is responsible for, amongst other things, "professional coach development and succession planning". This is the guy who insisted that Pat Lam's contract contained the exit clause, who gave us Rassie Erasmus (without telling the guy he was replacing), who let Rassie Erasmus go via the same exit clause as Pat Lam used, who didn't know that Leinster had engaged Graham Henry, hired and then fired Kieran Keane and of course pertinent to this discussion, the guy who gave us the Anscombe-Kiss-Doak-Kiss-Gibbes game of musical coaches in Ulster. In the four years he's held this role 10 provincial coaches have been either sacked or appointed (and in some cases subsequently sacked/removed). Thats a pretty extraordinary turnover.

So, there are two ways to look at it. If the above is accurate, or even mostly accurate, then he's an incompetent. If the above isn't accurate, or is mostly inaccurate even, then he allowed it to happen on his watch and is, therefore, incompetent.

So if theres another shambolic coaching appointment process, like we currently have in Ulster, then it is both walking and talking like a duck.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby ronk » June 15th, 2018, 12:06 pm

**double post
Last edited by ronk on June 16th, 2018, 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Jackie Brown » June 15th, 2018, 9:10 pm

Dave Cahill wrote:
BlueBlue wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:[quote="BlueBlue"]

Hiring a coach and then being disappointed about his starting date, who else made it?



The IRFU. They thought they could play chicken with the SRU (and maybe get a little revenge for the RWC vote) by leaking his appointment and get him released early. The SRU said "that'll be one extra large bag of cash please".


No, seeing as you and I don't actually know what happened, not being in the room. We have to speculate or rely on what we hear through other various channels. What I've read is that Ulster got approval for the deal from the IRFU, that's a rubber stamp, its Ulster who carry out Ulster business. After the fact, Ulster came back to the IRFU with the date problem. The IRFU were not at all happy, the relationship with the Scottish being what it is due to the world cup no vote, the Scots are the last people the IRFU would look for a favour or compromise from. And having to give them a bag of money would be stomach turning to the IRFU.

Ulster are responsible for Ulster. The idea that everyone is powerless and just being swept along on an IRFU wind is nonsense. The IRFU need the provinces, Ulster in this case to run their own affairs, the IRFU make sure such management is in line with national teams interest and the health of rugby in general.


Firstly the appointment was leaked by INM - it wasn't a problem until then and everything became public.

Secondly, we know with absolute 100% certainly that Ulster aren't responsible for Ulster. We know this because in the Ospreys playoff Ruan Pienaar wasn't paired with Paddy Jackson at halfback.

The IRFU have a Performance Director in place who is responsible for, amongst other things, "professional coach development and succession planning". This is the guy who insisted that Pat Lam's contract contained the exit clause, who gave us Rassie Erasmus (without telling the guy he was replacing), who let Rassie Erasmus go via the same exit clause as Pat Lam used, who didn't know that Leinster had engaged Graham Henry, hired and then fired Kieran Keane and of course pertinent to this discussion, the guy who gave us the Anscombe-Kiss-Doak-Kiss-Gibbes game of musical coaches in Ulster. In the four years he's held this role 10 provincial coaches have been either sacked or appointed (and in some cases subsequently sacked/removed). Thats a pretty extraordinary turnover.

So, there are two ways to look at it. If the above is accurate, or even mostly accurate, then he's an incompetent. If the above isn't accurate, or is mostly inaccurate even, then he allowed it to happen on his watch and is, therefore, incompetent.

So if theres another shambolic coaching appointment process, like we currently have in Ulster, then it is both walking and talking like a duck.[/quote]+1

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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby ronk » June 15th, 2018, 9:52 pm

It worked out for Leinster eventually, but the transition to Leo wasn’t smooth either.

This is not encouraging. The expectation of Performance Director is stable and effective. Irish team are doing well but not built off stable provinces.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby TerenureJim » June 16th, 2018, 11:11 am

ronk wrote:It worked out for Leinster eventually, but the transition to Leo wasn’t smooth either.

This is not encouraging. The expectation of Performance Director is stable and effective. Irish team are doing well but not built off stable provinces.


Leo got the job in exceptional circumstances and in his first season had to deal with a huge portion of the squad being away at RWC instead of preseason, still made a pro12 final first season, euro semi & pro 12 next, did the double this. I think you can put an RWC asterisk next to that first season.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Aird » June 16th, 2018, 8:46 pm

It appears that Jonno has previous record with regard to contracts.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=10400206
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » June 18th, 2018, 3:54 pm

I see Scotland have announced his replacement but still say McFarland will be there until January. Wilson (his replacement) was due to go to Wasps but Scotland agreed a deal with them to get him out of that, so presumably they paid compensation and now Ulster will just match that and throw in an extra 20% or something and then everyone is happy.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » June 21st, 2018, 9:59 am

Nucifora hinting very strongly that Ulster / IRFU are close on the tail of an IQ out-half not currently playing with one of the Provinces. Can only think of Steenson as being of the required calibre. Any other suggestions?
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Dave Cahill » June 21st, 2018, 10:13 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:Nucifora hinting very strongly that Ulster / IRFU are close on the tail of an IQ out-half not currently playing with one of the Provinces. Can only think of Steenson as being of the required calibre. Any other suggestions?


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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby jimbobjoe » June 21st, 2018, 10:39 am

Marsh? Is he sticking with rugby or calling it a day?
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