Jonathan Sexton - Leinster Legend & Captain

[Blueberry]

Fair play to J10 - absolutely calling it as it is, NO BS as always from our main man.............I keep bleating on about this but the Carbery move was a sign for me that Nucifora (if it's him entirely pushing this) doesn't really get the core thing that has made provincial Irish rugby great, i.e keeping local lads playing in their local province....yes players not making it in their home province can hop around but deliberate manipulation is not on.

We could do with Carbery ATM and it's weakened Leinster and strengthened Munster. Simple and it's wrong.

And for what it's worth the more I see of Carbery I am not entirely convinced he's a 10...................maybe Leocaster and Co were onto something with him at fullback and not just to get him on the pitch......when J10 was there.

Hands off, let the provinces grow and develop and keep their identity strong. This is our greatest asset. Munster are a bit of a sham ATM with their 'SA/Leinster B' mix diluting their base and they are the poorer for it.

Irish rugby if just turned into a set of franchisees playing players from an all Ireland Pool will kill our great strength.

Leave alone.

[mildlyinterested]

The fact that Carbeyr had a contract with Leinster and this was essentially ignored says all you need to know.

Leinster obviously not happy, but won't kick up in public.

[riocard911]

Fair play to J10 - absolutely calling it as it is, NO BS as always from our main man.............I keep bleating on about this but the Carbery move was a sign for me that Nucifora (if it's him entirely pushing this) doesn't really get the core thing that has made provincial Irish rugby great, i.e keeping local lads playing in their local province....yes players not making it in their home province can hop around but deliberate manipulation is not on.

We could do with Carbery ATM and it's weakened Leinster and strengthened Munster. Simple and it's wrong.

And for what it's worth the more I see of Carbery I am not entirely convinced he's a 10...................maybe Leocaster and Co were onto something with him at fullback and not just to get him on the pitch......when J10 was there.

Hands off, let the provinces grow and develop and keep their identity strong. This is our greatest asset. Munster are a bit of a sham ATM with their 'SA/Leinster B' mix diluting their base and they are the poorer for it.

Irish rugby if just turned into a set of franchisees playing players from an all Ireland Pool will kill our great strength.

Leave alone.

+1

[Oldschool]

Fair play to J10 - absolutely calling it as it is, NO BS as always from our main man.............I keep bleating on about this but the Carbery move was a sign for me that Nucifora (if it's him entirely pushing this) doesn't really get the core thing that has made provincial Irish rugby great, i.e keeping local lads playing in their local province....yes players not making it in their home province can hop around but deliberate manipulation is not on.

We could do with Carbery ATM and it's weakened Leinster and strengthened Munster. Simple and it's wrong.

And for what it's worth the more I see of Carbery I am not entirely convinced he's a 10...................maybe Leocaster and Co were onto something with him at fullback and not just to get him on the pitch......when J10 was there.

Hands off, let the provinces grow and develop and keep their identity strong. This is our greatest asset. Munster are a bit of a sham ATM with their 'SA/Leinster B' mix diluting their base and they are the poorer for it.

Irish rugby if just turned into a set of franchisees playing players from an all Ireland Pool will kill our great strength.

Leave alone.

Your post got me wondering.
It strikes me that the Oz Super 15 teams are just franchises of the Nucifora type whereas NZ Super 15 teams are more like the Irish provinces.
As you point out it would be very bad for Irish rugby to go the Oz route and lose that parochial sense of belonging.
Bad for the players and bad for the fans.

[wixfjord]

The national team is our greatest strength because it's by far the biggest earner. That's Nucifora and Schmidt's prime mandate. We (and the branch) might not like it, but moving Carbery was logical viewed through that prism and we all know by now it's national side uber alles. .

[Oldschool]

Sexton calls it like it is

"We've got a good squad this year but it's not as good as it was last year, so what's going to happen if three or four more players leave and get moved to (other) provinces, and suddenly Munster are getting even stronger.

There is also an element of dampening down expectations in what Sexton is saying.
Sexton is simply trying to reduce the hype.

[leinsterforever]

Fair play to J10 - absolutely calling it as it is, NO BS as always from our main man.............I keep bleating on about this but the Carbery move was a sign for me that Nucifora (if it's him entirely pushing this) doesn't really get the core thing that has made provincial Irish rugby great, i.e keeping local lads playing in their local province....yes players not making it in their home province can hop around but deliberate manipulation is not on.

We could do with Carbery ATM and it's weakened Leinster and strengthened Munster. Simple and it's wrong.

And for what it's worth the more I see of Carbery I am not entirely convinced he's a 10...................maybe Leocaster and Co were onto something with him at fullback and not just to get him on the pitch......when J10 was there.

Hands off, let the provinces grow and develop and keep their identity strong. This is our greatest asset. Munster are a bit of a sham ATM with their 'SA/Leinster B' mix diluting their base and they are the poorer for it.

Irish rugby if just turned into a set of franchisees playing players from an all Ireland Pool will kill our great strength.

Leave alone.

Your post got me wondering.
It strikes me that the Oz Super 15 teams are just franchises of the Nucifora type whereas NZ Super 15 teams are more like the Irish provinces.
As you point out it would be very bad for Irish rugby to go the Oz route and lose that parochial sense of belonging.
Bad for the players and bad for the fans.

A lot of the Highlanders players aren't actually from that area as far as I know. And players get moved around in NZ quite a lot, so I'm not sure that's a good analogy.

Anyway, I think Frawley is just the right type of player to replace Carbery. He's where Carbery was two years ago now

[Oldschool]

The national team is our greatest strength because it's by far the biggest earner. That's Nucifora and Schmidt's prime mandate. We (and the branch) might not like it, but moving Carbery was logical viewed through that prism and we all know by now it's national side uber alles. .

True but there are risks if the prism doesn't scatter some light on the overall package.
Team Ireland depends on the provinces and visa versa.
Ergo Team Jocifora have to be mindful of the golden egg laying geese that feed the Goose.

[Blueberry]

Good post from 'Oldschool' and interesting thought - I think it's hugely relevant and ultimately they don't care in OZ and NZ as it's 100% about the national team. For me the Irish National Team is great because of the local identify and player development coming from our provinces. To me it's a worrying lack of awareness as to what really is our core strength. Without being silly about it (and with all due respect to Ulster and Connacht) the internecine Munster v Leinster rivalry to me, has helped drive Irish Rugby to the great heights we are at now - two brothers killing each other to get to the top, at the moment Leinster are well on top but we are terrified of letting them back in !! .........as well as Nucifora just not getting it, Munster's desperation to start getting results in recent years has clouded their judgment and their zeitgeist (excuse the Thornley ism) is all the poorer for it...........I have talked to Munster fans who are not at all happy about the current SA / Leinster offcasts / Carbery etc structure..........and don't get me wrong for the sake of the Irish national team we desperately need a strong Munster........I want a strong Munster Munster.

[mildlyinterested]

Fair play to J10 - absolutely calling it as it is, NO BS as always from our main man.............I keep bleating on about this but the Carbery move was a sign for me that Nucifora (if it's him entirely pushing this) doesn't really get the core thing that has made provincial Irish rugby great, i.e keeping local lads playing in their local province....yes players not making it in their home province can hop around but deliberate manipulation is not on.

We could do with Carbery ATM and it's weakened Leinster and strengthened Munster. Simple and it's wrong.

And for what it's worth the more I see of Carbery I am not entirely convinced he's a 10...................maybe Leocaster and Co were onto something with him at fullback and not just to get him on the pitch......when J10 was there.

Hands off, let the provinces grow and develop and keep their identity strong. This is our greatest asset. Munster are a bit of a sham ATM with their 'SA/Leinster B' mix diluting their base and they are the poorer for it.

Irish rugby if just turned into a set of franchisees playing players from an all Ireland Pool will kill our great strength.

Leave alone.

Your post got me wondering.
It strikes me that the Oz Super 15 teams are just franchises of the Nucifora type whereas NZ Super 15 teams are more like the Irish provinces.
As you point out it would be very bad for Irish rugby to go the Oz route and lose that parochial sense of belonging.
Bad for the players and bad for the fans.

A lot of the Highlanders players aren't actually from that area as far as I know. And players get moved around in NZ quite a lot, so I'm not sure that's a good analogy.

Anyway, I think Frawley is just the right type of player to replace Carbery. He's where Carbery was two years ago now

thats very generous to Frawley.

[tomthefan]

Fair play to J10 - absolutely calling it as it is, NO BS as always from our main man.............I keep bleating on about this but the Carbery move was a sign for me that Nucifora (if it's him entirely pushing this) doesn't really get the core thing that has made provincial Irish rugby great, i.e keeping local lads playing in their local province....yes players not making it in their home province can hop around but deliberate manipulation is not on.

We could do with Carbery ATM and it's weakened Leinster and strengthened Munster. Simple and it's wrong.

And for what it's worth the more I see of Carbery I am not entirely convinced he's a 10...................maybe Leocaster and Co were onto something with him at fullback and not just to get him on the pitch......when J10 was there.

Hands off, let the provinces grow and develop and keep their identity strong. This is our greatest asset. Munster are a bit of a sham ATM with their 'SA/Leinster B' mix diluting their base and they are the poorer for it.

Irish rugby if just turned into a set of franchisees playing players from an all Ireland Pool will kill our great strength.

Leave alone.

Your post got me wondering.
It strikes me that the Oz Super 15 teams are just franchises of the Nucifora type whereas NZ Super 15 teams are more like the Irish provinces.
As you point out it would be very bad for Irish rugby to go the Oz route and lose that parochial sense of belonging.
Bad for the players and bad for the fans.

Yeah you'd like to have a strong core of local players at least. Not sure it's compatible with professional sport though. I seem to remember
hearing that the Basque Clubs in Spanish the la Liga consciously try to have Basque representation, it's notable for its rarity in professional soccer.
I wonder how fans of the likes of Leicester Tigers feel about this type of thing.

[blockhead]

They were discussing this on OTB last night. Spreading the talent around the Provinces "is a good thing" and all that. Woody pointed out that we dont want 4 Leinster teams, but its up to the other 3 to up their game and start making a contribution.

[Dexter]

They were discussing this on OTB last night. Spreading the talent around the Provinces "is a good thing" and all that. Woody pointed out that we dont want 4 Leinster teams, but its up to the other 3 to up their game and start making a contribution.

We're a lot closer to 4 Leinster teams now than ever before....

[tomthefan]

We have four provincial teams and if the best available talent is to be utilised (even before taking the Leinster schools' effect into account) then you'd expect there to be a scattering of Leinster players in the other provinces. It's a sign of a system that's working as far as providing for the national side is concerned.

[TrapperChamonix]

They were discussing this on OTB last night. Spreading the talent around the Provinces "is a good thing" and all that. Woody pointed out that we dont want 4 Leinster teams, but its up to the other 3 to up their game and start making a contribution.

We're a lot closer to 4 Leinster teams now than ever before....

Lets not get carried away.
There's more Saffers starting for Ulster / Munster than Leinster born players. I'm guessing Munster have 3 Leinster players starting (Joey, Beirne & Conway), Ulster have 3 (O'Connor, Murphy & Cooney). How many Saffers?


Actually that has me thinking, if you counted the nationalities of players starting this weekend in the Pro14 would the Saffers be no 1? Even in the days of the Pro12, they would easily have had more players than the Scots or Italians. They do churn out a lot of Pro rugby players.

[TrapperChamonix]

We have four provincial teams and if the best available talent is to be utilised (even before taking the Leinster schools' effect into account) then you'd expect there to be a scattering of Leinster players in the other provinces. It's a sign of a system that's working as far as providing for the national side is concerned.

Not sure what the Leinster schools effect means, but I'd agree with the rest of that statement.

[blockhead]

From the Limerick Post.

OPINION: Who Wants to Know?
By Tom Savage -September 27, 2018

As a Corkman writing for a Limerick paper, I’m careful not to tread on sensitive inter-county lines when pressing send on this column. I try not to mention the inherent superiority of Barry’s Tea to whatever tea it is ye drink in Limerick, for example.

I don’t mention how the River Lee is just straight up better than the Shannon in every single way you can imagine bar absolutely none.

Don’t even try to convince me of different. I do this cultural maintenance because I’m a sensitive guy and, well, Munster is bigger than all of these inter-county squabbles. I focus on the things we all have in common like, for example, an inherent suspicion of anyone who goes around asking too many questions.

A few years back, an American made their way onto Barrack Street where I was living going door to door looking for information on his grandfather who, according to him, used to live in the area. House after house answered the door and house after house told him ‘nathin.

When I spoke to an elderly neighbour a few days afterwards she told me that she knew who he was talking about but she’d be damned if she was going to tell tales to someone knocking at a door just asking questions. She knew! But the guy was just asking too many questions and that got her back up. We’re a suspicious people, Corkonians. Just like Limerick. We’ve got that in common.

Whether you’re on Barrack Street or Sexton Street, asking too many questions about a local is a good way to get a short, sharp “who’s asking?”. So maybe it’s that inherent attitude that has me bristling over some of the media’s reaction to Conor Murray’s injury. “The lack of detail,” they say, “is an invitation for speculation to fill the void.” They then tend to list off all the different types of speculation someone might make when they’re not told explicitly what’s going on with “social media” being the chief culprit.

Which is particularly funny given the absolutely baseless speculation indulged in by traditional media outlets on a regular basis. Remember CJ Stander supposedly signed and sealed with Montpellier last season only to confirm that he was only speaking to the IRFU a few days later when his three-year deal was announced?

Remember Keith Earls joining Saracens? Remember James Cronin being “75%” out the door only to announce a new contract the next day? You don’t need a Twitter account or a forum pseudonym to speculate these days – a column in the Irish Independent will do just fine.

Munster’s relative lack of information on Conor Murray’s injury is going to be the new standard going forward and I, for one, can’t wait for it to be commonplace. Conor Murray’s medical information is his business and only of interest to him, his doctor and Munster/IRFU.

In the aftermath of Chris Farrell’s injury last February, I had a number of correspondents sending me their Dr Google results predicting that Farrell might well be back for the end of the season. “Knee injuries like this,” one person confidently predicted, “clear up nice and quickly.” Munster announced what the injury was but that didn’t stop the speculation.

Remember when Paul O’Connell was going through his struggles with a groin injury and infection around 2010 and, despite numerous media briefings on the matter, he still had to stop some forum idiot from spreading a rumour that he had a life-threatening disease? A lack of information doesn’t create a vacuum, it creates a basis point for people to jump from if the interest is strong enough.

Murray, like O’Connell, has a talismanic presence at Munster and any absence for longer than a few weeks will lead to speculation. They could post pictures of his scan and it wouldn’t stop the scurrilous and click-hungry from making something more of it. For sports journalists, it’s business. For fans, it’s passion and, while I get that, it has to be tempered with reality.

When you buy a ticket at the gate or a shirt in Lifestyle Sports, it entitles you to stand in the ground and own a Munster jersey and that’s it. You are no more entitled to the details of Murray’s neck issue than you are the details of my male pattern baldness just because you picked up this paper.

Curiosity is natural but just because you want to know, doesn’t mean you have a right to. Enjoy the players who are playing and welcome back the guys who were injured but now aren’t. Worrying about the exact nature of a neck injury is bad enough when you know the details of it, but absolutely pointless when you won’t know anything.

Little dig at the INDO.

[mildlyinterested]

From the Limerick Post.

OPINION: Who Wants to Know?
By Tom Savage -September 27, 2018

As a Corkman writing for a Limerick paper, I’m careful not to tread on sensitive inter-county lines when pressing send on this column. I try not to mention the inherent superiority of Barry’s Tea to whatever tea it is ye drink in Limerick, for example.

I don’t mention how the River Lee is just straight up better than the Shannon in every single way you can imagine bar absolutely none.

Don’t even try to convince me of different. I do this cultural maintenance because I’m a sensitive guy and, well, Munster is bigger than all of these inter-county squabbles. I focus on the things we all have in common like, for example, an inherent suspicion of anyone who goes around asking too many questions.

A few years back, an American made their way onto Barrack Street where I was living going door to door looking for information on his grandfather who, according to him, used to live in the area. House after house answered the door and house after house told him ‘nathin.

When I spoke to an elderly neighbour a few days afterwards she told me that she knew who he was talking about but she’d be damned if she was going to tell tales to someone knocking at a door just asking questions. She knew! But the guy was just asking too many questions and that got her back up. We’re a suspicious people, Corkonians. Just like Limerick. We’ve got that in common.

Whether you’re on Barrack Street or Sexton Street, asking too many questions about a local is a good way to get a short, sharp “who’s asking?”. So maybe it’s that inherent attitude that has me bristling over some of the media’s reaction to Conor Murray’s injury. “The lack of detail,” they say, “is an invitation for speculation to fill the void.” They then tend to list off all the different types of speculation someone might make when they’re not told explicitly what’s going on with “social media” being the chief culprit.

Which is particularly funny given the absolutely baseless speculation indulged in by traditional media outlets on a regular basis. Remember CJ Stander supposedly signed and sealed with Montpellier last season only to confirm that he was only speaking to the IRFU a few days later when his three-year deal was announced?

Remember Keith Earls joining Saracens? Remember James Cronin being “75%” out the door only to announce a new contract the next day? You don’t need a Twitter account or a forum pseudonym to speculate these days – a column in the Irish Independent will do just fine.

Munster’s relative lack of information on Conor Murray’s injury is going to be the new standard going forward and I, for one, can’t wait for it to be commonplace. Conor Murray’s medical information is his business and only of interest to him, his doctor and Munster/IRFU.

In the aftermath of Chris Farrell’s injury last February, I had a number of correspondents sending me their Dr Google results predicting that Farrell might well be back for the end of the season. “Knee injuries like this,” one person confidently predicted, “clear up nice and quickly.” Munster announced what the injury was but that didn’t stop the speculation.

Remember when Paul O’Connell was going through his struggles with a groin injury and infection around 2010 and, despite numerous media briefings on the matter, he still had to stop some forum idiot from spreading a rumour that he had a life-threatening disease? A lack of information doesn’t create a vacuum, it creates a basis point for people to jump from if the interest is strong enough.

Murray, like O’Connell, has a talismanic presence at Munster and any absence for longer than a few weeks will lead to speculation. They could post pictures of his scan and it wouldn’t stop the scurrilous and click-hungry from making something more of it. For sports journalists, it’s business. For fans, it’s passion and, while I get that, it has to be tempered with reality.

When you buy a ticket at the gate or a shirt in Lifestyle Sports, it entitles you to stand in the ground and own a Munster jersey and that’s it. You are no more entitled to the details of Murray’s neck issue than you are the details of my male pattern baldness just because you picked up this paper.

Curiosity is natural but just because you want to know, doesn’t mean you have a right to. Enjoy the players who are playing and welcome back the guys who were injured but now aren’t. Worrying about the exact nature of a neck injury is bad enough when you know the details of it, but absolutely pointless when you won’t know anything.

Little dig at the INDO.

Author is the guy who runs three red kings, the munster fansite/twitter account.

[blockhead]

From the Limerick Post.

OPINION: Who Wants to Know?
By Tom Savage -September 27, 2018

As a Corkman writing for a Limerick paper, I’m careful not to tread on sensitive inter-county lines when pressing send on this column. I try not to mention the inherent superiority of Barry’s Tea to whatever tea it is ye drink in Limerick, for example.

I don’t mention how the River Lee is just straight up better than the Shannon in every single way you can imagine bar absolutely none.

Don’t even try to convince me of different. I do this cultural maintenance because I’m a sensitive guy and, well, Munster is bigger than all of these inter-county squabbles. I focus on the things we all have in common like, for example, an inherent suspicion of anyone who goes around asking too many questions.

A few years back, an American made their way onto Barrack Street where I was living going door to door looking for information on his grandfather who, according to him, used to live in the area. House after house answered the door and house after house told him ‘nathin.

When I spoke to an elderly neighbour a few days afterwards she told me that she knew who he was talking about but she’d be damned if she was going to tell tales to someone knocking at a door just asking questions. She knew! But the guy was just asking too many questions and that got her back up. We’re a suspicious people, Corkonians. Just like Limerick. We’ve got that in common.

Whether you’re on Barrack Street or Sexton Street, asking too many questions about a local is a good way to get a short, sharp “who’s asking?”. So maybe it’s that inherent attitude that has me bristling over some of the media’s reaction to Conor Murray’s injury. “The lack of detail,” they say, “is an invitation for speculation to fill the void.” They then tend to list off all the different types of speculation someone might make when they’re not told explicitly what’s going on with “social media” being the chief culprit.

Which is particularly funny given the absolutely baseless speculation indulged in by traditional media outlets on a regular basis. Remember CJ Stander supposedly signed and sealed with Montpellier last season only to confirm that he was only speaking to the IRFU a few days later when his three-year deal was announced?

Remember Keith Earls joining Saracens? Remember James Cronin being “75%” out the door only to announce a new contract the next day? You don’t need a Twitter account or a forum pseudonym to speculate these days – a column in the Irish Independent will do just fine.

Munster’s relative lack of information on Conor Murray’s injury is going to be the new standard going forward and I, for one, can’t wait for it to be commonplace. Conor Murray’s medical information is his business and only of interest to him, his doctor and Munster/IRFU.

In the aftermath of Chris Farrell’s injury last February, I had a number of correspondents sending me their Dr Google results predicting that Farrell might well be back for the end of the season. “Knee injuries like this,” one person confidently predicted, “clear up nice and quickly.” Munster announced what the injury was but that didn’t stop the speculation.

Remember when Paul O’Connell was going through his struggles with a groin injury and infection around 2010 and, despite numerous media briefings on the matter, he still had to stop some forum idiot from spreading a rumour that he had a life-threatening disease? A lack of information doesn’t create a vacuum, it creates a basis point for people to jump from if the interest is strong enough.

Murray, like O’Connell, has a talismanic presence at Munster and any absence for longer than a few weeks will lead to speculation. They could post pictures of his scan and it wouldn’t stop the scurrilous and click-hungry from making something more of it. For sports journalists, it’s business. For fans, it’s passion and, while I get that, it has to be tempered with reality.

When you buy a ticket at the gate or a shirt in Lifestyle Sports, it entitles you to stand in the ground and own a Munster jersey and that’s it. You are no more entitled to the details of Murray’s neck issue than you are the details of my male pattern baldness just because you picked up this paper.

Curiosity is natural but just because you want to know, doesn’t mean you have a right to. Enjoy the players who are playing and welcome back the guys who were injured but now aren’t. Worrying about the exact nature of a neck injury is bad enough when you know the details of it, but absolutely pointless when you won’t know anything.

Little dig at the INDO.

Author is the guy who runs three red kings, the munster fansite/twitter account.

I meant to put that on the TPFKAM tread. Sorry.
He's a good writer based on that.

[riocard911]

He sure is, fair play to him!!