Leinster v Ulster

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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Jackie Brown » January 6th, 2019, 3:06 am

Blueberry wrote:Yes COB very encouraging and some other encouraging performances but hard to judge as jeepers Ulster were poor.........I know it's their second strong but they offered absolutely nothing going forward. We could easily have scored another 3-4 if it wasn't for mistakes and they spent most of the night soaking tackles, missing tackles and going backwards...........staggeringly poor team I felt. Lucky to get 7 points. Atmosphere was pants too as within about 10 minutes it turned into an elaborate training session.

Not the lads fault of course as you can only play what is in front of you and it is really good to see lots of the new talent but feeling this season is a tricky balancing act as the PRO 14 is offering such little real opposition (our half of the league is over on the 5th Jan beyond reasonable doubt) - it offers little heavy duty and testing competition for a team having to overcome serious teams like Toulouse next weekend and then onto possibly the likes of Sarries / Racing etc later in the comp. Ultimately if we lose a tight game against one of the big guns is the lack of tough match fitness going to be something to look at.

The split of the PRO 14 into two conf's is arguably working against us, certainly this season anyway as there are so many dross teams - with Glasgow seeming to be imploding on the far side of the comp potentially we could have nothing significantly testing to play in the PRO14 until a final v quite possibly Munster......not ideal.

Don't get me wrong, great to be winning and getting lots of kids out but just a nagging doubt that you need to be tested on a more regular basis to keep sharp !!
Have you not watched Ulster this season? What did you expect exactly? A team that have been poorly managed for the past 5yrs, shorn of their top players that made them competitive either due to stupid IRFU rules regarding overseas players or due to being found innocent in a court of law. The soul has been torn out of the northern province. They're lucky to fill half their stadium. We've been shown over the last few years were we stand and rank in the grand scheme of things. Only so many hammering a you take before you don't give a feck anymore.

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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Peg Leg » January 6th, 2019, 12:49 pm

Some kudos to Barry Daly, thought he added something with every touch. He is very brutal in his attacking posture, I can see why he is injured so often.

Not sure who said it here previously, but Deegan is Heaslipesque in how he plays. RPG can than Deegan for shepherding the ball 7m or so at the back of the scrum for his try.

Watched Porter's try in slowmo a few times, ridiculous strength and body shape for the dive over. He is hit square by two defenders mid dive, there is an imperceptible pause before his momentum forces him straight through. He is one of those players like Locko that thrives on intensity and little battle victories, love watching him play.

Delighted to see Frawley playing so well, but a missed touch finder and another intercepted pass are work ons. Perhaps Reid is a bad influence on him with his ridiculous range of passing.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Jonny tight lips » January 6th, 2019, 12:55 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:
Blueberry wrote:Yes COB very encouraging and some other encouraging performances but hard to judge as jeepers Ulster were poor.........I know it's their second strong but they offered absolutely nothing going forward. We could easily have scored another 3-4 if it wasn't for mistakes and they spent most of the night soaking tackles, missing tackles and going backwards...........staggeringly poor team I felt. Lucky to get 7 points. Atmosphere was pants too as within about 10 minutes it turned into an elaborate training session.

Not the lads fault of course as you can only play what is in front of you and it is really good to see lots of the new talent but feeling this season is a tricky balancing act as the PRO 14 is offering such little real opposition (our half of the league is over on the 5th Jan beyond reasonable doubt) - it offers little heavy duty and testing competition for a team having to overcome serious teams like Toulouse next weekend and then onto possibly the likes of Sarries / Racing etc later in the comp. Ultimately if we lose a tight game against one of the big guns is the lack of tough match fitness going to be something to look at.

The split of the PRO 14 into two conf's is arguably working against us, certainly this season anyway as there are so many dross teams - with Glasgow seeming to be imploding on the far side of the comp potentially we could have nothing significantly testing to play in the PRO14 until a final v quite possibly Munster......not ideal.

Don't get me wrong, great to be winning and getting lots of kids out but just a nagging doubt that you need to be tested on a more regular basis to keep sharp !!
Have you not watched Ulster this season? What did you expect exactly? A team that have been poorly managed for the past 5yrs, shorn of their top players that made them competitive either due to stupid IRFU rules regarding overseas players or due to being found innocent in a court of law. The soul has been torn out of the northern province. They're lucky to fill half their stadium. We've been shown over the last few years were we stand and rank in the grand scheme of things. Only so many hammering a you take before you don't give a feck anymore.

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Well said, if you were an Ulster fan you could be forgiven for thinking the IRFU has it in for them when you see How they are treated compared to Munster. If the IRFU has known Addison was that good he would now doubt be wearing red line all the other good IQ players being imported.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby mildlyinterested » January 6th, 2019, 1:42 pm

Some other interesting notes(maybe only to me) from Ulster game:

Doris(20) played 8 and Deegan(22) 6 when he came on.
Dowling(21) had a good debut winning a turnover too. Looks physically like a lock more than a 6.
Barry Daly played fullback when JOB replaced Kearney. JOB on the wing.
Ross Byrne didn't make an appearance off the bench.

Man of the match should have been a forward maybe Molony or Deegan.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on January 6th, 2019, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby fourthirtythree » January 6th, 2019, 1:46 pm

It's not a good assessment. Ulster have been sending teams like that for a Christmas hiding for years. Even when they had half a team of Springboks and won nothing. Nor should Ulster want to be treated like Munster with their ridiculous recruitment.

And Ulster revoked contracts on instruction from their sponsors. They chose the money of course. I don't think any reasonable person would expect otherwise.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby OTT » January 6th, 2019, 1:58 pm

Ulster got hosed because they played a bunch of kids because they have bigger fish to fry. Jackie loves to whinge but Ulster are on the up and a result like this will have no effect on where they are going. They need more bodies for sure but that will no doubt happen in the summer as it did last year and their young players are getting the game time needed. The IRFU did know how good Addison was which is why he was training with the Irish team last June.

When Molony is good which he was yesterday he reminds me of Leo, a competitive pain in the hole who hits every contact with and without the ball like it’s for the biggest match of his life, he seems to be able to play at that level more regularly now and he is still a young guy. You wouldn’t be surprised to see him being another Leinster 200 capper the way he is going I guess that will depend if he makes the step up to Ireland regularly or not.

Thought we could have beaten them by a lot more if we were more direct but I understand that we try to play a certain way every game and that experience helps us in the big games. It’s a pity it wasn’t two first teams having a go at each other but I understand why both teams needed to field the sides they did. Hopefully two wins next weekend will make the decision worthwhile.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby ronk » January 6th, 2019, 2:04 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:
Well said, if you were an Ulster fan you could be forgiven for thinking the IRFU has it in for them when you see How they are treated compared to Munster. If the IRFU has known Addison was that good he would now doubt be wearing red line all the other good IQ players being imported.


Joe talked up Addison early and rushed him into the squad, even letting him unofficially link up in Oz.

Ulster lost a lot but they recruited too. Moore, Murphy, Addison are Irish internationals, Speight is a big name too. Burns will probably cap at some point. They reached to get McFarland too.

They'll have to build but they got a solid foundation to build on. Ulster have built their squad around star players lifting the rest for a long time. They are setup to do that and are still contending in Pro14 and Heineken Cup for this season. That's a result given where they were at one point.

The IRFU wanted Carbery to go to Ulster too. I blame Munster in the first instance there. Ulster's recruitment only looks bad compared to the support that Munster receive.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Gearzbox2 » January 6th, 2019, 2:20 pm

Last night really was a case of just beat what was in front of you for our lads...
Valuable game time for a few like Jack Mc, Cronin, RK and Porter who will be involved next week

We played some really good stuff but at times over played and had some sloppy turnovers from Penney and COB (both I thought were very good so no slight on them)....
Cronin was everywhere for the first 40, thought he went well
Like many on here have said Ross Maloney playing great stuff, seems to have got hold of the physical stuff and using his body positioning in contact far better...mick K also had a good outing
Max Deegan seems to have bounced back well from his recent holiday in the cold so fair play to him

JGP and Frawley worked well but largely untested and COB was very industrious
Back 3 was good and great to see Barry Daly back
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby leinsterforever » January 6th, 2019, 3:54 pm

Not sure on Cronin. Think I'd pick Tracy and Byrne for Toulouse
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby artaneboy » January 6th, 2019, 7:10 pm

leinsterforever wrote:Not sure on Cronin. Think I'd pick Tracy and Byrne for Toulouse


Not sure on our two-try hero? He had a great outing- bar one lost line out, which I don’t think was even his fault.

I’ve given out on him previously in that flaw, but to be honest Tracy is no more reliable- and we really can’t risk playing Byrne in such a big match.


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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Gearzbox2 » January 6th, 2019, 7:14 pm

leinsterforever wrote:Not sure on Cronin. Think I'd pick Tracy and Byrne for Toulouse


I’d go Dan Sheehan and Brian Bryne personally
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby hugonaut » January 6th, 2019, 7:51 pm

Can't complain too much about a 40-7 win, but it was a scratchy performance. Lots of knock-ons and a couple of remarkable saves from Deegan and Frawley off dreadful passes that prevented more of the same.

Scrum was very, very strong throughout. Another very big performance from Andrew Porter, who continues to impress and looks increasingly dominant. A couple of great tries from Sean Cronin [his seventh and eight of the season] deserve mention – as somebody said before in this thread, he's miles ahead of our other hookers. Good to see big Jack back as well. He's such a quality prop.

Big efforts from Mick Kearney and Ross Molony in the row - very busy and solid. 10 possessions and 18 tackles from Kearney, 12 possessions and 15 tackles from Molony.

Penny is obviously an absolute freak to be playing so well at this level as a 19 year old. Deegan was prominent with and without the ball and completely outplayed Nick Timoney, who has been in good form for Ulster this season. Like a few other people, I would have preferred to see Doris get more time at blindside – Josh Murphy is a worker, but he's quite one-paced. It's tough to criticise a guy who does everything he's asked to do, but I'd like to see Deegan get the push at No8 AND keep Doris' rate of progression high.

Not quite as good a performance from JGP as we have become used to, but he was nursing an inexperienced halfback partner and managed to get his name on the scoresheet, so not a bad night.

Another encouraging outing from Ciaran Frawley, but there's a lot more upwards progression in him before he hits his ceiling. You can see the talent is there, but we couldn't really get much going in terms of our backline. The fact that a lot of our scores came from close to the line emphasised that. It's the first time they've all played together, and they were probably acting as opposition for the portion of the training week, so it's completely forgivable.

Easy game for Conor O'Brien and Noel Reid in the centres. Reider looks so comfortable this season [especially in the RDS] and Conor O'Brien is obviously a big talent. That huge left-footed clearance was something that we've previously seen in the Celtic Cup, and it's a serious asset to have.

Barry Daly was enthusiastic but rusty. Has obviously taken a few pointers from James Lowe in terms of keeping the ball alive - picking it back up when tackled, looking for the offload etc. AB+ was a bit isolated with the lack of direction from No10, but should have come infield looking for the ball more often in the second half. RK was RK, rock solid. This isn't a game where he needed to show what he does best.

We're 19 points ahead in our conference, which is ridiculous. 5 home games to come, 3 away games. Very difficult to see us being caught in this position, nobody else in the conference is playing particularly well.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby ronk » January 6th, 2019, 8:39 pm

Yeah, later part of this season, Porter's trajectory and adaptation into his new role has me wondering if he might eventually challenge Furlong, which should be crazy talk.

Once he looked like a loosehead who managed at tighthead through raw talent and effort. Now he looks more of a tighthead.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Oldschool » January 6th, 2019, 8:51 pm

ronk wrote:Yeah, later part of this season, Porter's trajectory and adaptation into his new role has me wondering if he might eventually challenge Furlong, which should be crazy talk.

Once he looked like a loosehead who managed at tighthead through raw talent and effort. Now he looks more of a tighthead.

Could he still play LH at international level?
Would be very useful for the RWC.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby lummix » January 7th, 2019, 12:38 am

That was a shocking Ulster team. Worst I've ever seen them send to play us so hard to judge how good people played.
The pick of our players were penny and obrien.

Two observations/concerns for me.
(1) Frawley plays very far behind the gainline which makes it difficult for the rest of the backline.
(2) not sure deegan packs the punch to be an 8 at this level. Doesn't seem to punch holes and hangs out on the wings a lot.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby artaneboy » January 7th, 2019, 1:05 am

lummix wrote:That was a shocking Ulster team. Worst I've ever seen them send to play us so hard to judge how good people played.
The pick of our players were penny and obrien.

Two observations/concerns for me.
(1) Frawley plays very far behind the gainline.
(2) not sure deegan packs the punch to be an 8 at this level. Doesn't seem to punch holes and hangs out on the wings a lot.


We have played several Ulster teams at least as weak as that one over the last few years. This one at least had the merit of being young and game. Some good individual performances there too.

Frawley was playing a bit deep- but was also very effective in what he did at 10. I’d look for that quality first before demanding he’s a fully formed Larkham-style OH.

Deegan is a clever, skilful 8- making ground by way of stepping, positioning and speed. He was very good yesterday and is showing good form- I have to say better than his supposed rival Doris in that position if late. Both are class players- but Deegan could be our replacement for Heaslip at 8.


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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Laighin Break » January 7th, 2019, 10:57 am

artaneboy wrote:
leinsterforever wrote:Not sure on Cronin. Think I'd pick Tracy and Byrne for Toulouse


Not sure on our two-try hero? He had a great outing- bar one lost line out, which I don’t think was even his fault.

I’ve given out on him previously in that flaw, but to be honest Tracy is no more reliable- and we really can’t risk playing Byrne in such a big match.


Cronin also won 2 lineouts himself!

As mentioned by others, another very encouraging performance by our locks. I wouldn't be as worried as before if we had to call upon one of them for a Heineken Cup or knockout game.
I had the same thought as ronk about Porter when watching the game, and taking his performance against Connacht into account too, he really is in top form and could possibly challenge Furlong. The leg strength he has for the tries against Connacht and Ulster is ridiculous. He seemed to be stopped by two players, but just powered through.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby Blueberry » January 7th, 2019, 11:24 am

Porter is a serious operator and we are blessed to have him and Furlong, serious strength in depth there.

Sorry but don't understand any of the discussion over Cronin at hooker, for me is our number one Hooker end of story, no debate for me there. Whatever about the odd line-out issue he (and he is no worse than our other options or most hookers anywhere) he offers so much go forward and is like another explosive back row ball carrier. Over 5-6 yards for me his acceleration is stunning and he's a huge attacking asset - I've always felt he should be starting for Ireland too, big fan of his. Also a super maul operator.

The debate over Tracy v Byrne for the reserve spot is a more interesting one to me - Byrne getting closer in my eyes.
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby backrower8 » January 7th, 2019, 12:16 pm

hugonaut wrote:Deegan was prominent with and without the ball and completely outplayed Nick Timoney, who has been in good form for Ulster this season. Like a few other people, I would have preferred to see Doris get more time at blindside – Josh Murphy is a worker, but he's quite one-paced. It's tough to criticise a guy who does everything he's asked to do, but I'd like to see Deegan get the push at No8 AND keep Doris' rate of progression high.


So can we take it that, unlike Des Berry on independent.ie last week, you wouldn't be up for sending Deegan on loan anywhere?
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Re: Leinster v Ulster

Postby backrower8 » January 7th, 2019, 12:17 pm

Blueberry wrote:The debate over Tracy v Byrne for the reserve spot is a more interesting one to me - Byrne getting closer in my eyes.


I would far prefer Byrne over Tracy and keen also to see Kelleher get some more minutes this season...at Tracy's expense.
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