Leinster's Back Three options going forward

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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby ronk » January 23rd, 2019, 5:48 am

It could happen but there's no specific reason to think that Rob Kearney won't be around next season.

He is as effective and as needed as ever. In fact he probably has less pressure from competition now at fullback than at any stage in his career: for Leinster and Ireland.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » January 23rd, 2019, 9:06 am

ronk wrote:It could happen but there's no specific reason to think that Rob Kearney won't be around next season.

He is as effective and as needed as ever. In fact he probably has less pressure from competition now at fullback than at any stage in his career: for Leinster and Ireland.


Not sure about that, although he is still an effective player.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby wixfjord » January 23rd, 2019, 10:22 am

He's definitely as needed as ever. I wouldn't fancy going into a big game without him at 15. Larmour is learning, but nowhere near the 15 RK is even at this stage.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby hugonaut » January 23rd, 2019, 9:06 pm

ronk wrote:It could happen but there's no specific reason to think that Rob Kearney won't be around next season.

He is as effective and as needed as ever. In fact he probably has less pressure from competition now at fullback than at any stage in his career: for Leinster and Ireland.


Definitely no specific reason, and he has said that he wants to continue [source: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3718791 ].

But his place will come under an awful lot more pressure because there's practically no chance that he will be able to play another four years as an international and make the next RWC as a first choice 37 year old fullback. So it's not a case of if he goes [as it has been between the last RWC and the coming one], rather a case of when he goes.

The coaching change at international level will have a destabilising effect on his position in the national team, as will pressure from media and fanbase to start building a side for the next world cup.

He's an extremely high quality player though, and as has been said above, there's not a huge amount of genuine competition for his place at the moment - O'Halloran, Haley, Ludik and Larmour leading contenders.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby curates_egg » January 23rd, 2019, 11:40 pm

hugonaut wrote:
ronk wrote:It could happen but there's no specific reason to think that Rob Kearney won't be around next season.

He is as effective and as needed as ever. In fact he probably has less pressure from competition now at fullback than at any stage in his career: for Leinster and Ireland.


Definitely no specific reason, and he has said that he wants to continue [source: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3718791 ].

But his place will come under an awful lot more pressure because there's practically no chance that he will be able to play another four years as an international and make the next RWC as a first choice 37 year old fullback. So it's not a case of if he goes [as it has been between the last RWC and the coming one], rather a case of when he goes.

The coaching change at international level will have a destabilising effect on his position in the national team, as will pressure from media and fanbase to start building a side for the next world cup.

He's an extremely high quality player though, and as has been said above, there's not a huge amount of genuine competition for his place at the moment - O'Halloran, Haley, Ludik and Larmour leading contenders.


And Addison!

I had high hopes for Keenan, but others seem less enthusiastic?
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby sunshiner1 » January 24th, 2019, 2:17 am

If I remember didn't Kearney recently mention about maybe going to France after the RWC. I think a lot of people like me seem to think this will happen. Couldn't blame him if he does get a big paycheck before you finish up and spend time in a new country. He'd be a big asset for whoever signed him.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby ronk » January 24th, 2019, 8:12 am

4 years is a high bar and there'll be a new coach in no rush to rebuild without key experience.

There are a few other positions with incumbents at ages where the next RWC will be a challenge. Many of those positions have understudies already.

The same questions aren't being asked as much of them. Larmour will be a better player learning off and competing against Kearney than if he's handed it. None of the other options are even close to him in positional sense and aerial threat.

I think it makes sende to keep him on a central contract.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » January 24th, 2019, 8:53 am

ronk wrote:
I think it makes sense to keep him on a central contract.


there is absolutely no hope he will be kept on a central contract, which is why his current deal was signed up until the world cup.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby neiliog93 » January 24th, 2019, 9:27 pm

He'll be pushing 34 after the RWC, has a lot of mileage on the clock after coming through young, and has consistently struggled with injuries. Giving him another central contract post-RWC would be absolute madness.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby mildlyinterested » January 29th, 2019, 9:01 am

Back Three minutes this season

Jordan Larmour(11+0) = 866
James Lowe(11+0) = 820
Adam Byrne(10+0) = 800
Rob Kearney(8+0) = 544
Dave Kearney(7+1) = 542
Fergus McFadden(3+1) = 306
Hugo Keenan(3+0) = 199
Barry Daly(3+0) = 169
Jack Kelly(0+1) = 12
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Peg Leg » January 29th, 2019, 9:20 am

mildlyinterested wrote:Back Three minutes this season

Jordan Larmour(11+0) = 866
James Lowe(11+0) = 820
Adam Byrne(10+0) = 800
Rob Kearney(8+0) = 544
Dave Kearney(7+1) = 542
Fergus McFadden(3+1) = 306
Hugo Keenan(3+0) = 199
Barry Daly(3+0) = 169
Jack Kelly(0+1) = 12
I'd imagine we will see Kelleher somewhere around the 400min mark at this stage next season.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Ruckedtobits » January 29th, 2019, 11:09 am

neiliog93 wrote:He'll be pushing 34 after the RWC, has a lot of mileage on the clock after coming through young, and has consistently struggled with injuries. Giving him another central contract post-RWC would be absolute madness.


Certainly don't think that will happen. If I was trying to assess who we'ed use at Full-back for a RWC19 q/f, if RK got injured, it would come down to what team we were facing. If it was NZ, I'd probably opt for Addison. If it was S Africa, I'd play Stockdale - who played the majority of his under-age rep rugby in the position.

Larmour scares me at full-back thus far. He doesn't seem to take the position seriously enough. He is constantly looking for increased involvement. That is not a problem, if he understands that his primary role is organising the back three of the team. When he brings the ball up in a counter-attack, don't stay around for the next four breakdowns, get back in position and mind the house. Work on your kick and chase, so that opponents can't automatically assume you'll run the ball back.

Conway & Larmour (and even Addison) offer different dimensions to the full-back role than RK. But none of them are essentially defensively minded. Some people like that, I don't, my full-backs first responsibility is to mind our backs.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Oldschool » January 29th, 2019, 12:05 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:He'll be pushing 34 after the RWC, has a lot of mileage on the clock after coming through young, and has consistently struggled with injuries. Giving him another central contract post-RWC would be absolute madness.


Certainly don't think that will happen. If I was trying to assess who we'ed use at Full-back for a RWC19 q/f, if RK got injured, it would come down to what team we were facing. If it was NZ, I'd probably opt for Addison. If it was S Africa, I'd play Stockdale - who played the majority of his under-age rep rugby in the position.

Larmour scares me at full-back thus far. He doesn't seem to take the position seriously enough. He is constantly looking for increased involvement. That is not a problem, if he understands that his primary role is organising the back three of the team. When he brings the ball up in a counter-attack, don't stay around for the next four breakdowns, get back in position and mind the house. Work on your kick and chase, so that opponents can't automatically assume you'll run the ball back.

Conway & Larmour (and even Addison) offer different dimensions to the full-back role than RK. But none of them are essentially defensively minded. Some people like that, I don't, my full-backs first responsibility is to mind our backs.

Agree completely with the last sentence.
Play it like that and you limit some of the attacking options available to the opposition.
It has been a key factor in Leinster's success.
Kick to RK and you've virtually no chance of getting the ball back.
His defencive reads also give our wingers more latitude in attack as well.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby riocard911 » January 30th, 2019, 11:01 am

Lots of talk in the Irish Rugby Shed on FB - based admittedly on one supposedly, according to themselves well-informed source - that Joe is going to start Henshaw at 15 vs the Charioteers. What would Leo, Stuart and Felipe think of that, were it to happen, I wonder...
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Oldschool » January 30th, 2019, 11:12 am

riocard911 wrote:Lots of talk in the Irish Rugby Shed on FB - based admittedly on one supposedly, according to themselves well-informed source - that Joe is going to start Henshaw at 15 vs the Charioteers. What would Leo, Stuart and Felipe think of that, were it to happen, I wonder...

Henshaw is very capable of playing at FB but you'd think starting his FB career against the swingers is highly unlikely.
The last time he played FB was when he was playing for Connacht iirc.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby fourthirtythree » January 30th, 2019, 11:21 am

Henshaw was a temporary fullback filling in for injuries and retirement for a single season. He had one international game, for the wolfhounds, at fullback, where he was average.

Two talking points from down south are fairly constant: Kearney is no good and hasn't been since 2009, and Aki is better than Henshaw and he's really a fullback. He really isn't and that would be a huge gamble with actual fullbacks in the squad.

I wouldn't have a problem with Aki starting or Kearney not. But Henshaw at 15 would be a wild, wild selection.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Oldschool » January 30th, 2019, 11:39 am

fourthirtythree wrote:Henshaw was a temporary fullback filling in for injuries and retirement for a single season. He had one international game, for the wolfhounds, at fullback, where he was average.

Two talking points from down south are fairly constant: Kearney is no good and hasn't been since 2009, and Aki is better than Henshaw and he's really a fullback. He really isn't and that would be a huge gamble with actual fullbacks in the squad.

I wouldn't have a problem with Aki starting or Kearney not. But Henshaw at 15 would be a wild, wild selection.

Wild is a bit of an understatement.
Joe doesn't do that kind of nonsense anyway tg.
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Edna Kenny » January 30th, 2019, 1:16 pm

riocard911 wrote:Lots of talk in the Irish Rugby Shed on FB - based admittedly on one supposedly, according to themselves well-informed source - that Joe is going to start Henshaw at 15 vs the Charioteers. What would Leo, Stuart and Felipe think of that, were it to happen, I wonder...


If Leinster can't give him the gametime he needs at fullback, then the only option is for him to go to Munster...
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby Peg Leg » January 30th, 2019, 2:42 pm

riocard911 wrote:Lots of talk in the Irish Rugby Shed on FB - based admittedly on one supposedly, according to themselves well-informed source - that Joe is going to start Henshaw at 15 vs the Charioteers. What would Leo, Stuart and Felipe think of that, were it to happen, I wonder...
Probably move him TPFKM if he got a run of games there

Edit: beaten to it by Enda
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Re: Leinster's Back Three options going forward

Postby hugonaut » January 30th, 2019, 7:43 pm

Robbie Henshaw - Starts by Team/Comp/Position

2012-13 [19 years old, Connacht]
Pro12: 2 starts @ No13, 12 starts @ No15
Heineken Cup: 6 starts @ No15
Ireland: 1 start @ No15

2013-14 [20 years old, Connacht]
Pro12: 8 starts @ No13, 9 starts @ No15
Heineken Cup: 4 starts @ No13, 2 starts @ No15
Ireland: 0 starts

2014-15 [21 years old, Connacht]
Pro12: 12 starts @ No13
Challenge Cup: 1 start @ No12, 4 starts @ No13
Ireland: 6 starts @ No12, 1 start @ No13

2015-16 [22 years old, Connacht]
Pro12: 4 starts @ No13, 4 starts @ No15
Challenge Cup: 3 starts @ No13
Ireland: 9 starts @ No12, 3 starts @ No13

2016-17 [23 years old, Leinster]
Pro12: 5 starts @ No12
Heineken Cup: 7 starts @ No12, 1 start @ No13
Ireland: 7 starts @ No12
Lions: 4 starts @ No12

2017-18 [24 years old, Leinster]
Pro12: 3 starts @ No12
Heineken Cup: 4 starts @ No12, 4 starts @ No13
Ireland: 1 start @ No12, 5 starts @ No13

2018-19 [25 years old, Leinster]
Pro12: 5 starts @ No12
Heineken Cup: 3 starts @ No12

55 starts @ No12 [27 Leinster, 23 Ireland, 4 Lions, 1 Connacht]
51 starts @ No13 [37 Connacht, 9 Ireland, 5 Leinster]
34 starts @ No15 [33 for Connacht, 1 for Ireland]

Last start @ fullback was for Connacht vs Munster [16/04/16], a 35-14 win in the Sportsground.

Lots of boring numbers there, headlines are:
- pretty much a No15 in his first season at Connacht [2012-13];
- split more or less equally between No13 and No15 in his second season [2013-14]
- No13 for Connacht and No12 for Ireland [2014-15]
- largely a No13 for Connacht but played some No15; largely a No12 for Ireland but played some No13 [2015-16]
- almost exclusively a No12 for Leinster, Ireland and Lions [2016-17]
- split time for Leinster between No12 and No13, played mostly at No13 for Ireland [2017-18]
- solely at No12 for Leinster, injured for November Internationals [2018-19]
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