The Scott Fardy Appreciation Thread

[Peg Leg]

Unfortunately we are victims of our own success.
Nathan Hines not being offered a new contract had nothing to with his age.
We'd have done the triple HEC wins with him.
Not being allowed extend his contract was a huge hammer blow to our chances because we didn't have an adequate replacement for him.
Everyone knows this, even the dogs on the street.
Do go figure but don't take too long.

Nathan may tell the full story at some point. At that time, we only offered over-30s one-year contracts. That changed with Jamie, but he was on a National Contract as is Sean O'Brien at present. JS had a part in the decision as did IRFU, Eddie Wigglesworth. However, despite how the backstory has developed legs over the years, it was not straighforward and not all the fault of IRFU.

We would have won three in a row if we had a front row to play Toulouse in 2010. That was our real chance.

We had a front row to play Toulouse in 2010. His name was Mike Ross and his coming on stabilised the scrum. Unfortunately, Cheika just didn't like him.

Eh, this is the match that forced our current scrum coach and large version Chris Pine, to retire. He passed out at every scrum engage. Not much of a front row.

[wixfjord]

our current scrum coach and large version Chris Pine

[Oldschool]

Doesn't matter how good your FR is you still an engine room.
Like most things, it's the unit that matters.

[bails]

The fact that Leinster Rugby may have difficulty in offering Scott Fardy another contract is a nonsense.

1. We currently provide the Irish first choice 2nd row.
2. We consistently give more opportunities to other Irish qualified players in our First Team, than any of the other Provinces do. In the case of the second row think Ross Molony, Mick Kearney, Oisin Dowling and lately Jack Dunne.
3. The Irish qualified players figures approved by IRFU, don't stack up at all.

If we use the number of players not qualified to play for Ireland in the Provincial squads, rather than splitting into NIQ and Project player
Leinster 4 players
Munster 7 players (also have 2 NIQ players in academy )
Ulster 5 Players
Connacht 7 players

Remember all Provinces play in the same league, attempting to qualify for the same European Cup competition, so presumably should be treated on an even basis.

If Leinster aren't in a position to offer Scott Fardy a well deserved contract renewal, at the behest if the IRFU, it can only be because they apply different rules for different Provinces.
Or in layman's terms, certain other Provinces are gaining advantage because they couldn't be bothered or are not capable of developing younger players.

Makes me ask the rhetorical question : Why do we bother developing Irish players when we could us the money to but more overseas players, and fill the academy with NIQ's .

Lets have some fair play IRFU now !

[Dave Cahill]

If we use the number of players not qualified to play for Ireland in the Provincial squads, rather than splitting into NIQ and Project player

Yeah but you can't actually do that, because the reason some of these players were signed is because they are project players. Munster signing Kleyn or Marshall or, previously, Bleyandaal is them doing what they're supposed to be doing - developing players for the Irish team. The IRFU don't care how the players get to Carton House, or what accents they have when they arrive - all they care about is that they're there. I can make as many jokes about England's Mike Halley in his England jersey as I like, but he can play for Ireland on Saturday, and thats all that matters.

I'd love to know who the 5 Ulster players are btw - because I can only see one in their squad - Coetzee (and the similarly with Connacht - they have, at most, 3 players who can't, currently, play for Ireland and two of those could be NIQ rather than NIE)

[bails]

As I said I was looking at players who cannot play for Ireland
The following is taken from the Ulster and Connacht websites for the Season 2018/2019. (Some may have since moved on or replacements have been announced, my point was that the IRFU were happy to allow the players,whils5 they could not represent Ireland)

Ulster
Schalk van der Merle
Henry Speight
Marcel Coetzee
Louis Ludik
Wiehan Herbst

Connacht
Jarred Butler
Colby Faingaa
Kyle Godwin
David Horowitz
Joe Maksymiw
Tom McCartney

I had also included Domnic Robertson McCoy but I have 3stablished that he is Irish Qualified

[Jonny tight lips]

If we use the number of players not qualified to play for Ireland in the Provincial squads, rather than splitting into NIQ and Project player

Yeah but you can't actually do that, because the reason some of these players were signed is because they are project players. Munster signing Kleyn or Marshall or, previously, Bleyandaal is them doing what they're supposed to be doing - developing players for the Irish team. The IRFU don't care how the players get to Carton House, or what accents they have when they arrive - all they care about is that they're there. I can make as many jokes about England's Mike Halley in his England jersey as I like, but he can play for Ireland on Saturday, and thats all that matters.

I'd love to know who the 5 Ulster players are btw - because I can only see one in their squad - Coetzee (and the similarly with Connacht - they have, at most, 3 players who can't, currently, play for Ireland and two of those could be NIQ rather than NIE)

The limits are supposed to be 4 NIE and one additional if he’s a project player, Munsters 8 (including Knox and Moore) players not eligible to play for Ireland is outside those limits regardless of how many are project. If re sign Fardy we will have 3 NIE and one NIQ so not only would we be within the limits but we should have licience to get another all black with 100 caps if the humor strikes us.

[Dave Cahill]

As I said I was looking at players who cannot play for Ireland
The following is taken from the Ulster and Connacht websites for the Season 2018/2019. (Some may have since moved on or replacements have been announced, my point was that the IRFU were happy to allow the players,whils5 they could not represent Ireland)

Ulster
Schalk van der Merle
Henry Speight
Marcel Coetzee
Louis Ludik
Wiehan Herbst

Connacht
Jarred Butler
Colby Faingaa
Kyle Godwin
David Horowitz
Joe Maksymiw
Tom McCartney

I had also included Domnic Robertson McCoy but I have 3stablished that he is Irish Qualified

vd Merwe and Speight are gone and Ludik and Herbst are IQ

You're similarly guilty of flag watching with Connacht as both Maksymiw and McCartney are IQ and only Godwin is NIE

[Dave Cahill]

The limits are supposed to be 4 NIE and one additional if he’s a project player, Munsters 8 (including Knox and Moore) players not eligible to play for Ireland is outside those limits regardless of how many are project. If re sign Fardy we will have 3 NIE and one NIQ so not only would we be within the limits but we should have licience to get another all black with 100 caps if the humor strikes us.

Are they? The great thing about the IRFU is that they never write these things down (much like the overseas Irish player policy), so in reality the limit is whatever the union says it is, and if it says it's something else tomorrow, then it's something else!

[bails]

As I said I was looking at players who cannot play for Ireland
The following is taken from the Ulster and Connacht websites for the Season 2018/2019. (Some may have since moved on or replacements have been announced, my point was that the IRFU were happy to allow the players,whils5 they could not represent Ireland)

Ulster
Schalk van der Merle
Henry Speight
Marcel Coetzee
Louis Ludik
Wiehan Herbst

Connacht
Jarred Butler
Colby Faingaa
Kyle Godwin
David Horowitz
Joe Maksymiw
Tom McCartney

I had also included Domnic Robertson McCoy but I have 3stablished that he is Irish Qualified

vd Merwe and Speight are gone and Ludik and Herbst are IQ

You're similarly guilty of flag watching with Connacht as both Maksymiw and McCartney are IQ and only Godwin is NIE

As I said before, my point is that IRFU were happy to allow them have said players at start of season, Ludik and Herbst qualified in October 2018
I’m not interested in who has left and who has signed since.

I won’t bother in future, as per usual on this site, you aren’t allowed an opinion contrary to the chosen few.

[Dave Cahill]

You're allowed have any opinion you like, just like others are allowed disagree with it when its factually incorrect (Ludik and Herbst both qualified in Summer '17, to take yet another example).

[Jonny tight lips]

The limits are supposed to be 4 NIE and one additional if he’s a project player, Munsters 8 (including Knox and Moore) players not eligible to play for Ireland is outside those limits regardless of how many are project. If re sign Fardy we will have 3 NIE and one NIQ so not only would we be within the limits but we should have licience to get another all black with 100 caps if the humor strikes us.

Are they? The great thing about the IRFU is that they never write these things down (much like the overseas Irish player policy), so in reality the limit is whatever the union says it is, and if it says it's something else tomorrow, then it's something else!

Ok but while the limits aren’t written down, they are generally accepted as the limits just like the overseas rule which while not written down is adhered to. We need to make some noise and stick up for ourselves like Munster do it we’re gonna keep seeing others getting preferential treatment.

[Dave Cahill]

Ok but while the limits aren’t written down, they are generally accepted as the limits just like the overseas rule which while not written down is adhered to. We need to make some noise and stick up for ourselves like Munster do it we’re gonna keep seeing others getting preferential treatment.

What preferential treatment? The players we're developing for Ireland are way better than the ones that the other players are developing. We don't need a bunch of NIEs, with a few exceptions, we already have better players in situ. Your perception is that we're being held back by the Unions policy, but I would argue that they aren't trying to hold us back, they're trying to push the rest forward. Its like Rorschach in Watchmen - "'I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"

[bails]

I will cede to your greater knowledge Dave.
I best stick to attending and enjoying the matches rather than raising my stress levels in here

[Dave Cahill]

Ok but while the limits aren’t written down, they are generally accepted as the limits just like the overseas rule which while not written down is adhered to. We need to make some noise and stick up for ourselves like Munster do it we’re gonna keep seeing others getting preferential treatment.

What preferential treatment? The players we're developing for Ireland are way better than the ones that the other players are developing. We don't need a bunch of NIEs, with a few exceptions, we already have better players in situ. Your perception is that we're being held back by the Unions policy, but I would argue that they aren't trying to hold us back, they're trying to push the rest forward. Its like Rorschach in Watchmen - "'I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"

Just to take this one a bit further, which team would you rather watch...

Healy, Byrne, Furlong, Toner, Ryan, O'Brien, vd Flier, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Daly, O'Brien, Ringrose, Larmour, Kearney
or even
McGrath, Tracy, Porter, Maloney, Kearney, Ruddock, Leavy, Deegan, O'Sullivan, Byrne, Kearney, Reid, O'Loughlin , McFadden, Keenan

or

Parker, Marshall, Loughman, Kleyn, Beirne, Oliver, Cloete, Stander, Hart, Carbery, Conway, Bleyandaal, Farrell, Wootton, Haley

Admittedly the Munster selection would be highly unlikely to ever take the field - but which team do you think you'd feel more connected to? I know plenty of Munster fans who aren't sure potential success is worth 'a mess of pottage'

[Jonny tight lips]

Ok but while the limits aren’t written down, they are generally accepted as the limits just like the overseas rule which while not written down is adhered to. We need to make some noise and stick up for ourselves like Munster do it we’re gonna keep seeing others getting preferential treatment.

What preferential treatment? The players we're developing for Ireland are way better than the ones that the other players are developing. We don't need a bunch of NIEs, with a few exceptions, we already have better players in situ. Your perception is that we're being held back by the Unions policy, but I would argue that they aren't trying to hold us back, they're trying to push the rest forward. Its like Rorschach in Watchmen - "'I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"

Just to take this one a bit further, which team would you rather watch...



Healy, Byrne, Furlong, Toner, Ryan, O'Brien, vd Flier, Conan, McGrath, Sexton, Daly, O'Brien, Ringrose, Larmour, Kearney
or even
McGrath, Tracy, Porter, Maloney, Kearney, Ruddock, Leavy, Deegan, O'Sullivan, Byrne, Kearney, Reid, O'Loughlin , McFadden, Keenan

or

Parker, Marshall, Loughman, Kleyn, Beirne, Oliver, Cloete, Stander, Hart, Carbery, Conway, Bleyandaal, Farrell, Wootton, Haley

Admittedly the Munster selection would be highly unlikely to ever take the field - but which team do you think you'd feel more connected to? I know plenty of Munster fans who aren't sure potential success is worth 'a mess of pottage'

This is the Scott Fardy appreciation thread and it looks like we won’t be able to resign him when his presence will improve our chances of success next year while Munster have no problem witht eight NIE players. Last year one of our most promising players was sent down there by the IRFU in the process breaking a contract with us. We started the season with two 10s and Munster had 5 after their meddling. Same with 9, we have 3 they have 5 so we move one down to them.these player movements while weakening us also strengthen them who we compete with. What is they beat us in a final with Joey MOTM ..... alsolute nightmare manufactured by the IRFU.

[Dave Cahill]

I never partook of the Joey Carbury is irelands next outhalf kool-aid, so if they beat us in a final, no matter who was MOTM, thats what would piss me off.

[mildlyinterested]

[Jonny tight lips]

I never partook of the Joey Carbury is irelands next outhalf kool-aid, so if they beat us in a final, no matter who was MOTM, thats what would piss me off.

Regardless of him being Ireland’s next out half we were left very short at the start of the year, it’s hard to plan when somebody’s contract is broken. Also if they were to write down these rules on NIE and NIQ it would be better for all concerned and the provinces could plan better for future seasons. I do think Joey will be Ireland’s outhalf but sure we will see in the next two years.

I know you said Munster fans might not be happy to be successful with so many players from outside the province but I don’t think they will mind. Irish fans seem happy enough with Aki and CJ,

[Oldschool]

I never partook of the Joey Carbury is irelands next outhalf kool-aid, so if they beat us in a final, no matter who was MOTM, thats what would piss me off.

I did partake however now that he has moved to Munster it's unlikely he'll get the coaching necessary for him to reach his potential.
Munster signed (poached) Jim using their scatter gun policy rather than fit for purpose.
It's why they have so many SHs and OHs, they don't really know what type of SH they want.