Ruckedtobits wrote:Sam Dardis in the Sub-Academy should also be in this conversation.
There is no open and shut case. Dardis has had a hiccup in development but is playing very well in the AIL. for Terenure. He's big, quick and a natural fullback who seems to read opposition out-halves. He scores tries and inspires confidence the way he organises his back-field.
interesting to see you mention Dardis, he seems to be going well for Terenure as a 18 year old.
He failed to make the leinster 19's and since then I've wondered about him and leinster going forward.
COB's emergence could help divert Frawley to 15. Frawley might end up copying Joey's development here. I like the idea of Frawley being able to play 12, particularly if he's benching, but with COB looking so good I think Frawley should be seen as a 10/15 and hopefully that gives him a chance to develop in both positions.
I personally think it's increasingly likely that Robbie Henshaw ends up at full back for both province and country. The quality of the talent emerging in the centre positions - Conor O'Brien could feasibly be joined by Hawkshaw and Liam Turner in time and obviously Ringrose is an out-and-out 13 and going to be around for a long time yet. Add to that Harry Byrne's promise at out half and it isn't too hard to see Henshaw and Frawley spending the majority of their time at full back in the long run with Larmour concentrating on the wing. Appears to me that there's merit in it if we're to be two deep with quality options across the back line further down the track.
I'll be interested to see how Barry Daly does at fullback in the Kings game. Not convinced at all by the selection, but we're well down the depth chart with RK and Larmour away with Ireland, DK unfortunately ruled out and Hugo Keenan injured, so I suppose it's mend and make-do.
It's obvious that Leinster have tried to address the FB issue. Keenan has been given three starts there this season, and we've got two fullbacks in the academy in Jack Kelly and Michael Sylvester, both of them currently away with Ireland 7s [a code to which they're more suited, in my opinion]. It's not working out as smoothly as would have been hoped at this stage, although I think that Larmour has gone from being over-valued as a fullback to undervalued as a fullback in about two months. I think that Kelleher will be selected as a FB almost exclusively when he arrives next season, so it will be revealing to see how he acclimatises after three years largely playing on the wing in Connacht.
Henshaw's selection at FB against England got me thinking about the influence that Drico had on so many people, including teachers and coaches, throughout the 2000s and the first part of 2010s. All these big football midfielders like Henshaw, Tom Daly from Carlow and Conor O'Brien from Mullingar were put into a No13 rugby jersey by an age-grade coach somewhere basically because of Drico's influence.
The same thing happened in Munster with Keith Wood 20 years ago – teachers and coaches at age-grades down there started putting their best forward into a No2 jersey rather than a No8 jersey, and the kids were delighted because that was the best player on the team they watched on TV, the guy they wanted to be like.
Obviously Conor Nash is the one that got away, but I'd be interested to see if the academy look at the next rangy midfielder from a clubs/football background and recognise that the raw materials - catching, kicking, physique – are more suitable to fullback than centre.
Last edited by hugonaut on February 22nd, 2019, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jamie Osborne is a rangy athlete from a clubs/GAA background who is coming through. And I'd be interested to see if they look at James Reynolds there again this summer, who has a GAA background too afaik.
Hugo Keenan is also away with the 7's team after recovering from his injury. Kelleher i'm sure will be given a chance at FB, but his performances under the high ball and willingness to pass would leave me with doubts that is where he will settle. Kelly/Silvester being more suited to 7's, quite possibly, i'll wait and see. Both are still pretty young.
hugonaut wrote:although I think that Larmour has gone from being over-valued as a fullback to undervalued as a fullback in about two months.
Very true, been a strange couple of months for him after bouncing back well from the Toulouse and Argentina games.
I now suspect that Rob will stay on next season. I was full sure he'd go after the WC but obviously he's said he'll keep playing. I don't get the feeling he'll play past next season though and can't imagine he'll go anywhere for less than a full season. SOB won't be available for London Irish until December and struggle to see Rob heading abroad at that stage. Could be way off but just the way he said that he had decided to play on next season sounded quite finite to me.
Larmour is a much better fullback than a lot of people think. He's prone to mistakes and errors of judgement, and he had iffy games against Toulouse and Argentina, but in general he's decent there. He was excellent at home to Bath there, he did fairly well against Munster given the chaos that was going on in front of him, especially given that Lowe got sent off after half an hour. He was decent against Toulouse at home as well. Teams seem to kick to us less with him there as well, although that could just be a figment of my imagination. Having said all this he's definitely better on the wing at the moment.
hugonaut wrote:I'll be interested to see how Barry Daly does at fullback in the Kings game. Not convinced at all by the selection, but we're well down the depth chart with RK and Larmour away with Ireland, DK unfortunately ruled out and Hugo Keenan injured, so I suppose it's mend and make-do.
It's obvious that Leinster have tried to address the FB issue. Keenan has been given three starts there this season, and we've got two fullbacks in the academy in Jack Kelly and Michael Sylvester, both of them currently away with Ireland 7s [a code to which they're more suited, in my opinion]. It's not working out as smoothly as would have been hoped at this stage, although I think that Larmour has gone from being over-valued as a fullback to undervalued as a fullback in about two months. I think that Kelleher will be selected as a FB almost exclusively when he arrives next season, so it will be revealing to see how he acclimatises after three years largely playing on the wing in Connacht.
Henshaw's selection at FB against England got me thinking about the influence that Drico had on so many people, including teachers and coaches, throughout the 2000s and the first part of 2010s. All these big football midfielders like Henshaw, Tom Daly from Carlow and Conor O'Brien from Mullingar were put into a No13 rugby jersey by an age-grade coach somewhere basically because of Drico's influence.
The same thing happened in Munster with Keith Wood 20 years ago – teachers and coaches at age-grades down there started putting their best forward into a No2 jersey rather than a No8 jersey, and the kids were delighted because that was the best player on the team they watched on TV, the guy they wanted to be like.
Obviously Conor Nash is the one that got away, but I'd be interested to see if the academy look at the next rangy midfielder from a clubs/football background and recognise that the raw materials - catching, kicking, physique – are more suitable to fullback than centre.
If Rob does retire Post WC... it leave the following senior options at fullback next season:
Barry Daly(27) - Signed contract in 2017
Cian Kelleher(25) - Signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(23) - dev contract
Jordan Larmour(22) - Signed contract in 2018
Jimmy O'Brien(22) - dev contract
Ciaran Frawley(21) - dev contract
Jack Kelly(21) - dev contract
mildlyinterested wrote:If Rob does retire Post WC... it leave the following senior options at fullback next season:
Barry Daly(27) - Signed contract in 2017
Cian Kelleher(25) - Signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(23) - dev contract
Jordan Larmour(22) - Signed contract in 2018
Jimmy O'Brien(22) - dev contract
Ciaran Frawley(21) - dev contract
Jack Kelly(21) - dev contract
Would Lowe be an option? He always looks good when he has space in front of him, pretty strong in defence and has a good boot.
mildlyinterested wrote:If Rob does retire Post WC... it leave the following senior options at fullback next season:
Barry Daly(27) - Signed contract in 2017
Cian Kelleher(25) - Signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(23) - dev contract
Jordan Larmour(22) - Signed contract in 2018
Jimmy O'Brien(22) - dev contract
Ciaran Frawley(21) - dev contract
Jack Kelly(21) - dev contract
Would Lowe be an option? He always looks good when he has space in front of him, pretty strong in defence and has a good boot.
Yes he would, i remember watching him playing for the Maori against the Lions at Full Back. He's an incredible player in space, is good under a high ball and has a huge boot, defensively a little shakey perhaps but that never stopped Rob! There is no obvious manswer at FB for Ireland too when Rob moves on.
mildlyinterested wrote:If Rob does retire Post WC... it leave the following senior options at fullback next season:
Barry Daly(27) - Signed contract in 2017
Cian Kelleher(25) - Signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(23) - dev contract
Jordan Larmour(22) - Signed contract in 2018
Jimmy O'Brien(22) - dev contract
Ciaran Frawley(21) - dev contract
Jack Kelly(21) - dev contract
Would Lowe be an option? He always looks good when he has space in front of him, pretty strong in defence and has a good boot.
Yes he would, i remember watching him playing for the Maori against the Lions at Full Back. He's an incredible player in space, is good under a high ball and has a huge boot, defensively a little shakey perhaps but that never stopped Rob! There is no obvious manswer at FB for Ireland too when Rob moves on.
This is when the Carbury move becomes a problem for us
