Ireland u20 2020

[wixfjord]

Define 'make it' though? Conway for eg has at least made it into a green jersey fairly regularly.

Brendan Macken would be one for example who was majorly tipped and never really did anything.
Darren Hudson was another that looked excellent at that level.

Actually that 2010 U20 crop, along with delivering some big players, had some amount of untapped potential.

[mildlyinterested]

Macken was never actually that good for the 20s.

Conway, Hanrahan & Luke Marshall looked like future irish stars at 20s level and failed to reach that level.

Same with Jordan Coghlan and Conor Gilsenan.

Adam McBurney has failed to push on as hoped up north, still young though. Peter Dooley looked like a future irish international at 20s level, yet to see that form from him.

[cormac]

As it's the quite season here's a question for you guys. Which Under 20 Ireland player did you think was going to be a superstar but didn't make it for some reason? Be it injury/lack of form etc?

Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding.

[neiliog93]

There are a few guys who looked excellent at u-20 level who I thought would make the grade at the highest level but haven't for various reasons:

Backs: Stephen Fitzgerald, Rory Scholes, Sam Coghlan-Murray, Brendan Macken, Eoin O'Malley

Forwards: David Pollock, Adam Boland, Jack O'Connell, Paul Ryan

[leinsterforever]

Stephen Kerins, Stewart Maguire, Tom Daly, Luke Marshall, JJ Hanrahan

[wixfjord]

Macken was never actually that good for the 20s.

Conway, Hanrahan & Luke Marshall looked like future irish stars at 20s level and failed to reach that level.

Same with Jordan Coghlan and Conor Gilsenan.

Adam McBurney has failed to push on as hoped up north, still young though. Peter Dooley looked like a future irish international at 20s level, yet to see that form from him.

There is very little comparison between that group of players!
Marshall and Conway have both gone on to win 10+ Irish caps.

JJ has done feck all and the other two have been exiled to England.

This is what I'm saying, I don't think you could call the career of guys like Conway and Marshall a failure to 'make it'.

[Dave Cahill]

I wish I could have failed in my career as badly as Conway

[sunshiner1]

For me definitely Stewart Maguire. The guy was a beast at U20's level I remember thinking when he was playing I'm looking at the future Irish no. 3 here but he never kicked on for whatever reason. Leinster, Connacht and the Dragons all take a punt on him but couldn't get him to the next level.

Darren Hudson was another, thought he would have being a first teamer for Leinster anyway with a couple of caps to his name. Paddy Butler was another in that same group who I thought would have had more of a career.

mildlyinterested wrote:

Conor Gilsenan.

Gilsenan is a weird one. Moved to Connacht on loan and was offered a contract with them which he turned down to go abroad. Never really kicked on after. Could be out of sight out of mind but I think if he'd stayed in Ireland with any of the provinces he would have kept rising.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Stephen Kerins, Stewart Maguire, Tom Daly, Luke Marshall, JJ Hanrahan

I was a big fan of Kerins too, I know he wasn't the biggest but I thought he had everything. He's just signed a pro contract with Connacht though so hopefully he still has a chance, think he had a lot of injuries.

Have to say I have a very different recollection of Maguire. IIRC there was a buzz about him because of his size and because we were so desperate for THs at the time, don't think I ever saw him play well.

Slight tangent but coincidentally I looked him up recently. The Australian scrumhalf Josh Holmes is one of the best young players I've ever seen. He was a star at the 2007 JWC, had been the IRB U19 player of the year the year before that, moved to the Brumbies to replace George Gregan in 2008, and was working in a factory by 2013. He got back into pro rugby briefly to cover injuries at the Rebels, and made the Australian 7s squad a few years back but don't think he's involved anymore.

[ronk]

I wish I could have failed in my career as badly as Conway

At the time the expectations were higher. He was on pace for Stockdale like status. He’s more Dave Kearney than Rob Kearney. Not actually a failure but could have been more.

[dropkick]

Cian Kelleher would be one that springs to mind. Hanrahan also.

[sunshiner1]

Genuinely surprised no one has mentioned Eoin O'Malley.

[hugonaut]

As Ronk and Cormac said above, Conway and Hanrahan would be the standout ones for me. They were outstanding U20s, really first class. They came in with a lot of hype to the U20s and were able to deliver at the top level of the age-grade.

I thought Conway was going to be like an Irish version of Rory Underwood - not as intuitive or inventive as Shane Williams, but a lightning fast finisher with good rugby basics who could carve it up from deep if he got the ball in open space. Underwood played 91 tests for England and the Lions over 13 seasons and scored 51 international tries, so it was a really high bar, but I thought that Conway had that level of potential.

From watching them at U20s level, I thought Hanrahan was a better player than Jackson in every regard. Kicked with more invention, got his backline moving better, was a bigger threat as a runner, a better place-kicker, a stronger tackler and a more charismatic leader.

Billy Dardis would have to be another one. He was such a good player as a schoolboy and had such a good attitude that he looked like he couldn't miss – into the academy straight out of school etc. Just lost confidence and lost his way a bit ... conflicting advice from coaches, overthinking his rate of progress and unfortunate timing of injuries all played their part. He has given a couple of interviews about it, and he's very tough on himself – tougher than he needs to be, in my opinion.

I don't think any of those three players deserve derision or to be held up as examples of wasted talent – they're all good players. I think it shows that you need to have a coach to really champion you in selection meetings, and you need to be lucky with regards to getting opportunities and staying clear of injuries.

[dropkick]

In the U20 trophy Portugal beat Tonga 40-3. They'll play Japan for a chance to win promotion to next year's championship.

[Morf]

In the U20 trophy Portugal beat Tonga 40-3. They'll play Japan for a chance to win promotion to next year's championship.

Their under 20s league team would've hockeyed Portugal though.

[dropkick]

In the U20 trophy Portugal beat Tonga 40-3. They'll play Japan for a chance to win promotion to next year's championship.

Their under 20s league team would've hockeyed Portugal though.

Then its a pity they play a different sport... like most countries.

[mildlyinterested]

Irish 20's forwards preview

LH Prop
Harry Noonan(Greystone RFC/Old Wesley)
Marcus Hanan(Clane RFC/Old Belvedere)
Mark Donnelly(CBC/Shannon) - u19

Noonan likely to start first game, don't think there is much between him and Hanan be interested to see how both perform. Donnelly looks 3rd choice and may be called upon if theres injuries at the position.

TH Prop
Tom Clarkson(Blackrock/DUFC)
Charlie Ward(Tullow RFC/Clontarf)
Ryan McMahon(Clongowes/Old Belvedere)

Clarkson returns and could captain side.. Was excellent last season as a u19 and will hope to continue that fork this season. Ward got a few caps last summer during the JWC and can cover both sides of scrum. McMahon is an impressive physical prospect but there I'd have concerns over his scrummaging and discipline.

Hooker
John McKee(Campbell/Old Belvedere)
Bobby Sheehan(Clongowes/UCD)
Tom Stewart(BRA/Ballynahinch) - u19

Some concern around this position in regards to line out throwing, Stewart offers the most around the pitch and that could be the difference maker. McKee returns from last season and needs a big season. Sheehan impressed playing AIL last season for UCD as a 18 year old, built like his brother Dan if given an opportunity at this level may surprise.

Lock
Tom Ahern(Dungarvan RFC/Shannon)
Brian Deeny(Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
Eoin O'Connor(Waterpark RFC/Young Munster)
Paddy Kelly(St. Munchins/Garryowen)
Cian Prendergast(Newbridge/UCD)
Cormac Izuchukwu(Roscrea/Old Wesley)
Joe McCarthy(Blackrock/DUFC) - u19

Ahern and Deeny both return after getting capped last summer during the RWC. Deeny could playing 6 but looks more likely to play 4 with Ahern at 5. Both are big athletic players who are a long way from filling out threir frames. O'Connor and Kelly are more physically developed but not as good athletes.. Interested to see who gets the bench spot between them first time up. Prendergast is a lock/blindside and this versatility could earn him a place on the bench. Izuchukwu is top tier athlete who has been playing 7's since last season, he played 13 in school and is very much a player in development at lock. Finally McCarthy is a player who emerged last season while playing for Blackrock, he almost immediately played AIL out of school and while it would be a surprise if he played during the 6 nations due to the depth at the position its only a matter of time before he gets 20s caps.

Backrow
David McCann(RBAI/Banbridge)
Sean O'Brien(Blackrock/UCD)
Mark Hernan(St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Anthony Ryan(Clongowes/DUFC)
Josh Dunne(Exile/Galwegians)
Lucas Culliton(Roscrea/???)
Cian Hurley(CBC Cork/Garryowen)
Alex Soroka(Belvedere/DUFC) - u19

David McCann returns and the versatile backrow could line up at any of the three positions in the backrow, although I think he could feature at 8 early on. Sean O'Brien is a classic blindside but is capable of covering at 8 also.. Mark Hernan emerged last season captaining st. Michele's to SCT glory he is a classic openside and while needing to bulkup could get the 1st shot at starting at 7. Anthony Ryan can cover all three backrow positions but looks like Hernans main competition at openside, Ryan is physically much larger than Hernan and this could be a factor when facing bigger packs. Josh Dunne is an exile who joined Connacht last season, he appears to be a classic number 8.. Culliton is an openside who while raw is apparently an excellent athlete. Cian Hurley is a 6/8 who looks more likely to feature at blindside for the 20s if selected. Finally Alex Soroka has played 2nd row, 6 and 8 this season and could feature for the 20s at 6 this season.

[mildlyinterested]

Scrumhalf
Lewis Finlay(Down HS/Malone)
Conor McKee(Sullivan/Queens) - u19
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray/Clontarf) - u19

A lot of question marks at this position it appears Finlay looks to be 1st choice at the moment but how highly he is rated seems to be anyone's guess. Below that McKee and Murphy were the top two scrum halves on last year's Ireland u18 side. Both have played some AIL and currently look to be competing for the bench spot behind finlay.

Outhalf
Jack Crowley(Bandon/Cork Con)
Tim Corkery(Kilkenny RFC/UCD) - u19
Cathal Forde(Corinthians) - u19

Crowley is clearly the 1st choice here and will be a key player for the 20s to be successful. Meanwhile Tim Corkery and Cathal Forde both are involved in the 20s squad which would have been considered a surprise at the start of the season. Corkery especially has came from nowhere this season, first leading Leinster u19 to interpro success and then appearing for Leinster A in the Celtic Cup. Two seasons ago the starting 10s for Ireland u18 were Paddy McKenzie and Dylan Prendergast neither of whom seem to have made step up outside of schools rugby. Cathal Forde was involved in the 2nd Ireland u18 side last season and it will be interesting to see if he or Corkery are the sub 10 first game up.

Centre
Hayden Hyde(Exile/Ballynahinch)
Luis Faria(Wanderers/DUFC)
Harry O'Riordan(CBC Cork/UCC) - u19
Shane Jennings(Garbally/Ballinasloe) - u19
Ben Moxham(Ballymena) - u19

An interesting mix of players Here, Hyde looks to be a key player who will line up at 12 and Ireland will rely on heavily in midfield. After him it's a matter of who fits best next to him at 13. Jennings is a minor GAA star who Connacht have managed to get away from Galway hurling.. He is raw but an excellent athlete. I don't know much about Moxham, who has came through the Ulster club scene. Faria came through the Leinster club game and while not a big name has consistently been picked at 13 for Leinster underage sides. Finally O'Riordan may be in pole position for the 13 spot, he featured their last season for Ireland u18 and it will be interesting to see how he goes if given the nod first game up.

Back Three
Max O'Reilly(St. Gerards/DUFC)
Andrew Smith(St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(Blackrock/UCD)
Ethan McIlroy(Methody/Queens)
Oran McNulty(Exile/Corinthians)
Diarmuid Kilgallen(Roscrea/Galwegians)
Josh O'Connor(Wexford/UCD) - u19
Conor Rankin(Campbell/Ballynahinch) - u19

Max O'Reilly returns from last years JWC but isn't assured of a starting position in this back three. A more natural 15 he looks to be competing again McNulty and Rankin for that position with McNulty looking favourite to win out. On the wings it looks likely it will be Smith and McIlroy who both look to be in good form and are highly rated within their respective provinces. Comerford, Kilgallen and O'Connor are primarily wingers and it will be interesting to see who will be called upon first if required. Should mention Aaron Sexton will likely be missing due to Irish 7's duty.

[backrower8]

Culliton has played for Connacht A this season. His grandfather was capped for Ireland out of Wanderers in the row. His father and Uncle were 1st XV players for Wanderers in the 80s/90s. Another Uncle is a wheelchair athlete following serious injury in our sport.

[Pilotman123]

Starting team predictions?