RWC 2019

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby IanD » October 8th, 2019, 12:12 pm

According to Joel Stransky there is only 1 jersey available in the shops at the matches.

Guess who????


England.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby FLIP » October 9th, 2019, 11:49 am

Fiji led Wales for most of the first half. Only by living a mile offside have Wales gotten back into it. :roll:
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby flustered » October 9th, 2019, 12:58 pm

Could Owens have seen a red for that tackle in the first half? Have a feeling a Fiji player would have!

Radradra is some player!
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby fourthirtythree » October 9th, 2019, 1:04 pm

You'd have to be mad to give Wales a red at the world cup. If Angus Gardner had reffed Wales like he did us he'd be in witness protection right now!
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 9th, 2019, 4:42 pm

Some strange stuff going on with world rugby.

From https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules

Where a pool Match cannot be commenced on the day in which it is scheduled, it shall not be postponed to the following day, and shall be considered as cancelled. In such situations, the result shall be declared a draw andTeams will be allocated two Match points each and no score registered. For the avoidance of doubt, no bonus points will be awarded.

    * Now, early today our time, the telegraph reported that England's game with France was being moved to Oita indoors, it was a bit of a scoop for them, being as it was in advance of the official press conference at noon Japan time tomorrow.
    * Then, about 1.13 pm, the Telegraph and others started reporting that venue changes have been completely ruled out.
    * Firstly, Japan and Scotland needs to be played to decide the pool, as we all know.
    * England and France had already qualified so if they were considering games that would have venues changed, why was England france prioritised for Oita in the first place?
    * Why has Scotland Japan not been provisionally slated to be possibly moved to Oita on Sunday to save any issues? And give plenty of notice to everyone? Or another roofed stadium? Once the weather is confirmed tomorrow? The crowd don't matter, the game being played is what matters. Those that can make it to the game, great. Not one fan wants this abandoned, id say even the japanese don't want it, they know how it looks.
    * Neither namibia v canada, or Wales v Uruguay are playing in Oita Sunday, so it is free.
    * So why have they ruled out a venue change in the event the typhoon stops the possibility of play at the scheduled ground???

We've all seen the favouritism the refs have given Japan, even the most myopic of goons who believe in the sanctity of all that is rugby, can see it. It's also par for the course in world cups re: hosts. The Japan v Samoa decision at the end for the bp. The acknowledged mistakes v Ireland. Every host gets it. But this is taking it to a whole new level.

By ruling out a ground change before tomorrow's press conference (THAT's NOT IN THE RULES: it is within their remit to change the venue), and based on their own rules that it cannot be moved to the following day, World Rugby have managed to contrive a situation where Scotland could go out with an abandoned match, and Japan are carried into the Quarters, in the event the storm causes this to be unplayable.

Rule 2 under "Knock-out Matches"
Where a Match has to be abandoned at any time during the first half, the Match shall be played again in full within the two days following the scheduled Match day at the same Venue, or if required, an alternate Venue as directed by RWCL, for the full time, or such longer period as determined by RWCL.
. So a venue change is referred to for the rules on Knockouts, but no reference at all is in them rules for pools in relation to venue change. They CAN if they want change venue.

It looks ** (looks) like they realised that rescheduling le crunch would open them up to criticism if they abandoned and didn't reschedule Japan Scotland tomorrow at the press conference. Had the telegraph not reported a venue change this morning for England v France, this whole thing loses a bit of meaning. But because it was in the offing, serious questions now need to be answered.

Now its wait and see for scotland, if the weather is bad (and it is supposed to be) Scotland are out as any wiggle room has been shut down. Because they ruled out a venue change and won't get a chance to try beat Japan! It's a fait accompli pretty much - "look, its too late now, and we are not rescheduling any other games so that's just how it goes"

Lads it totally stinks. Like so much of the officiating at this world cup. And I believe it opens world rugby to legal action by Scotland - not that they would pursue going up against that organisation - they'd be murdered by refs for the next 30 years.
Last edited by thepunter on October 9th, 2019, 6:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby The Doc » October 9th, 2019, 4:58 pm

thepunter wrote:Some strange stuff going on with world rugby.

From https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules

Where a pool Match cannot be commenced on the day in which it is scheduled, it shall not be postponed to the following day, and shall be considered as cancelled. In such situations, the result shall be declared a draw andTeams will be allocated two Match points each and no score registered. For the avoidance of doubt, no bonus points will be awarded.

    * Now, early today our time, the telegraph reported that England's game with France was being moved to Oita indoors, it was a bit of a scoop for them, being as it was in advance of the official press conference at noon Japan time tomorrow.
    * Then, about 1.13 pm, the Telegraph and others started reporting that venue changes have been completely ruled out.
    * Firstly, Japan and Scotland needs to be played to decide the pool, as we all know.
    * England and France had already qualified so if they were considering games that would have venues changed, why was England france prioritised for Oita in the first place?
    * Why has Scotland Japan not been provisionally slated to be possibly moved to Oita on Sunday to save any issues? And give plenty of notice to everyone? Or another roofed stadium? Once the weather is confirmed tomorrow? The crowd don't matter, the game being played is what matters. Those that can make it to the game, great. Not one fan wants this abandoned, id say even the japanese don't want it, they know how it looks.
    * Neither namibia v canada, or Wales v Uruguay are playing in Oita.
    * So why have they ruled out a venue change in the event the typhoon stops the possibility of play at the scheduled ground???

We've all seen the favouritism the refs have given Japan, even the most myopic of goons who believe in the sanctity of all that is rugby, can see it. It's also par for the course in world cups re: hosts. The Japan v Samoa decision at the end for the bp. The acknowledged mistakes v Ireland. Every host gets it. But this is taking it to a whole new level.

By ruling out a ground change before tomorrow's press conference (NOT IN THE RULES, it is within their remit to change the venue), and based on their own rules that it cannot be moved to the following day, World Rugby have managed to contrive a situation where Scotland could go out with an abandoned match, and Japan are carried into the Quarters, in the event the storm causes this to be unplayable.

It looks ** (looks) like they realised that rescheduling le crunch would open them up to criticism if they abandoned and didn't reschedule Japan Scotland tomorrow at the press conference. Now its wait and see, if the weather is bad (and it is supposed to be) Scotland are out! Because they ruled out a venue change and won't get a chance to try beat Japan! It's a fait accompli pretty much - "look, its too late now, and we are not rescheduling any other games so that's just how it goes"

Lads it totally stinks. Like so much of the officiating at this world cup. And I believe it opens world rugby to legal action by Scotland - not that they would pursue going up against that organisation - they'd be murdered by refs for the next 30 years.


It's sort of funny though - a day or two ago, Townsend was saying that the Ireland game couldn't be changed - if the Typhoon hit it should be considered a draw. Of course, that's when it looked like the Irish game was under threat. Now that it's heading for Tokyo they have suddenly gone quiet :D
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 9th, 2019, 5:03 pm

I have actually edited that above Doc to include the fact they allow for a venue change in the knockout game section, but make no reference in the pool section.

So Townsend was actually right in regards to a day change being out of the question, but not a venue change

Scotland have a legal case on that basis in my opinion, and on the basis that a venue change was mooted early today for england france. Though again, they wont go up against them.

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » October 9th, 2019, 5:20 pm

I haven't been paying close attention this because I thought the threat of the typhoon had passed. I'm all in favour of the games being played no matter what the rules say, but at the same time, remember when Scotland didn't vote for us for the next World Cup? :P
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 9th, 2019, 6:08 pm

Australian media now reporting that England france is definitely cancelled. So they've gone from moving it to cancelling it completely.
How convenient for Japan, had they moved england v france , as they said they would, they would have had to move japan scotland.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 9th, 2019, 6:46 pm

I'm delighted for the RFU (who run the IRB), and england rugby in general. They must be so happy that there's logistical reasons they can't reschedule to a stadium at basically the other end of Japan (Oita).

How fortunate...now they wont have to face France without their two best players, Farrell and Billy vunipola. Bully for them!

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby kermischocolate » October 9th, 2019, 7:42 pm

The problem is the rules are very clear and unambiguous. It's an organisational, logistal and security nightmare to have to change venues.
It would also be the most ridiculously Scottish thing in the world to be knocked out of the World Cup by a typhoon :roll: !

For the integrity of the tournament it's in everyones interest to get the games played but I don't see how they can be if they don't go ahead on the same day as scheduled.

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules
Pool Matches

Delayed Matches
Where a pool Match cannot be started at the scheduled time, it will be considered delayed. Decisions on thedelay of Matches will be taken as early as possible on the Match day and be communicated to Teams by theMatch Commissioner.

Cancelled Matches
Where a pool Match cannot be commenced on the day in which it is scheduled, it shall not be postponed to thefollowing day, and shall be considered as cancelled. In such situations, the result shall be declared a draw andTeams will be allocated two Match points each and no score registered. For the avoidance of doubt, no bonuspoints will be awarded.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby thepunter » October 9th, 2019, 7:45 pm

KErmis -

It says nothing there about prohibiting change of venue does it? Absolutely nothing to say it can't be put in another venue. They have 4 days now to organise anything. This is Japan, they're pretty good at that kind of thing1`!

And let's get extreme here.

Lots of football matches get played behind closed doors due to crowd trouble punishment. They can put this on in a relatively local indoor ground. They could put it on in a school ground. It doesn't even have to be televised either in reality when you think about.

In no scenario is no game better than any type of game. They can play this game. Nowhere is a cancellation justified. It just suits Japan if it is cancelled.

Tell the japanese and scots, be ready on friday to bus it to xyz indoor stadium, this game is going ahead - a game is a game.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 9th, 2019, 8:07 pm

Know nothing about Japanese weather patterns.
However Japan is a small, long country.
A fifty kilometer shift from it's current four day out prediction and problem solved.
It's surely a wait and see situation.
I would agree however that the only realistic back up plan would be to move the match to a nearby covered stadium, assuming some such is available.
Those plans should be put in place asap and the team managements given a chance to see what is being proposed.
The biggest issue, for me, would be providing adequate facilities for the TMO.
I would add that if there is a risk of any game being cancelled, the same considerations should be applied.
Rankings points alone being at stake, requires this.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » October 9th, 2019, 10:23 pm

Lots of people on twitter convinced England v. France is mint going ahead. And I mean established rugby journos


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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » October 9th, 2019, 11:04 pm

Twist wrote:Lots of people on twitter convinced England v. France is mint going ahead. And I mean established rugby journos


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You'd wonder is this to both teams advantage or disadvantage.
Will they be undercooked for the QF or better rested
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby neiliog93 » October 10th, 2019, 12:34 am

Oldschool wrote:
Twist wrote:Lots of people on twitter convinced England v. France is mint going ahead. And I mean established rugby journos


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You'd wonder is this to both teams advantage or disadvantage.
Will they be undercooked for the QF or better rested


Based on previous RWCs and the short turnarounds in-competition, it is a definite advantage.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby outcast eddie » October 10th, 2019, 4:32 am

So, World Rugby has cancelled a couple of Saturday's games but Ireland V Samoa is set to go ahead. They will review Sunday's Japan V Scotland on Sunday morning. My understanding is if it is cancelled each team will get 2 points. This will see Japan on 16 points, Ireland on 16 points (if we get a BP) and Scotland on 12 points. What does it do to points difference? We are currently on 52 while Japan are on 46. I assume points difference will decide 1st and 2nd place if the Japan game is cancelled.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Xanthippe » October 10th, 2019, 6:07 am

outcast eddie wrote:So, World Rugby has cancelled a couple of Saturday's games but Ireland V Samoa is set to go ahead. They will review Sunday's Japan V Scotland on Sunday morning. My understanding is if it is cancelled each team will get 2 points. This will see Japan on 16 points, Ireland on 16 points (if we get a BP) and Scotland on 12 points. What does it do to points difference? We are currently on 52 while Japan are on 46. I assume points difference will decide 1st and 2nd place if the Japan game is cancelled.


The first decider is head to head so Japan would win group
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby dropkick » October 10th, 2019, 7:19 am

Farcical. NZ, England and France as well as SA all get a long break which is a massively unfair advantage.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby matt » October 10th, 2019, 7:22 am

A farce that will suit England, France, and New Zealand.

Surely venues could be moved and games played behind closed doors if necessary.
Japan should not have been awarded World Cup if they have annual weather issues. Not been able to complete fixtures at a World Cup is unprecedented.

Probably true to say Japan won’t lose out on any decision on Sunday on or off the field.
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