All Ireland League - Thread

[El Diablo]

Mike Ross packing down in the front row in Ulster Bank League Division 2C games is a safety risk? Discuss.

One of my friends was playing against Malahide, he said Ross came off the bench and they refused to scrum against him.

How did the ref work that out? What happened?

[mildlyinterested]

how'd trinity get on at weekend?

[El Diablo]

how'd trinity get on at weekend?

cracking battle in terrible conditions. Marys off to a flyer; 15 3 up after 25 mins. Trinity tries either side of halftime and some heroic defense ultimately won it 15 18. Lots of emerging talent on show. Doris is a fabulous athlete, Conor Dean was good but missed a potential equalising kick. Jack Kelly came off the bench for Trinity in the 2nd half and did well, Silvester continued his great form and Richard Dunne got his 1st Trinity try bursting lose from a maul. But MOTM was Paddy Finlay, the Trinity hooker. He had an absolute stormer. I lost count of his carries, mostly getting well over the gain line, his darts were 100% I think, scored the equalising try after half time and won the relieving turnover after 6/7 minutes of Marys pounding the Trinity line at the death. Lunatic stuff. He was like a man possessed as he was in the win against Buccs 2 weks ago. I know he has played some Leinster A but he definitely warrants a closer look from the Leinster coaches on current form.
Great match just a pity about the weather and the small crowd. A roaring fire and great hospitality in the bar afterwards made up for the damp

[mildlyinterested]

how'd trinity get on at weekend?

cracking battle in terrible conditions. Marys off to a flyer; 15 3 up after 25 mins. Trinity tries either side of halftime and some heroic defense ultimately won it 15 18. Lots of emerging talent on show. Doris is a fabulous athlete, Conor Dean was good but missed a potential equalising kick. Jack Kelly came off the bench for Trinity in the 2nd half and did well, Silvester continued his great form and Richard Dunne got his 1st Trinity try bursting lose from a maul. But MOTM was Paddy Finlay, the Trinity hooker. He had an absolute stormer. I lost count of his carries, mostly getting well over the gain line, his darts were 100% I think, scored the equalising try after half time and won the relieving turnover after 6/7 minutes of Marys pounding the Trinity line at the death. Lunatic stuff. He was like a man possessed as he was in the win against Buccs 2 weks ago. I know he has played some Leinster A but he definitely warrants a closer look from the Leinster coaches on current form.
Great match just a pity about the weather and the small crowd. A roaring fire and great hospitality in the bar afterwards made up for the damp

thanks for the report.

how's the scrum battle go? Byrne/Aungier?

[El Diablo]

how'd trinity get on at weekend?

cracking battle in terrible conditions. Marys off to a flyer; 15 3 up after 25 mins. Trinity tries either side of halftime and some heroic defense ultimately won it 15 18. Lots of emerging talent on show. Doris is a fabulous athlete, Conor Dean was good but missed a potential equalising kick. Jack Kelly came off the bench for Trinity in the 2nd half and did well, Silvester continued his great form and Richard Dunne got his 1st Trinity try bursting lose from a maul. But MOTM was Paddy Finlay, the Trinity hooker. He had an absolute stormer. I lost count of his carries, mostly getting well over the gain line, his darts were 100% I think, scored the equalising try after half time and won the relieving turnover after 6/7 minutes of Marys pounding the Trinity line at the death. Lunatic stuff. He was like a man possessed as he was in the win against Buccs 2 weks ago. I know he has played some Leinster A but he definitely warrants a closer look from the Leinster coaches on current form.
Great match just a pity about the weather and the small crowd. A roaring fire and great hospitality in the bar afterwards made up for the damp

thanks for the report.

how's the scrum battle go? Byrne/Aungier?

Forgot about him. He is not starting for Marys. In fairness the 2 starting props did well and had slightly the better of Byrne and Bollard. Aungier did come on in the 2nd half but I dont have much to report I'm afraid. Joe Byrne had to come back on for Trinity after being subbed earlier to shore up the scrum.
http://dufc.ie/trinity-dig-out-win-in-the-rain/

[mildlyinterested]

Forgot about him. He is not starting for Marys. In fairness the 2 starting props did well and had slightly the better of Byrne and Bollard. Aungier did come on in the 2nd half but I dont have much to report I'm afraid. Joe Byrne had to come back on for Trinity after being subbed earlier to shore up the scrum.
http://dufc.ie/trinity-dig-out-win-in-the-rain/

thanks.

[El Diablo]

Some great tries from the October try of the Month....
https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/926098162493853697
I didnt here of a winner being selected.

[Ruckedtobits]

All Ireland League Final and the IRFU allow yet another total anomaly when the only full-time professional player wins the man-of -the-match award against the amateurs. No fault of Peter Dooley but this makes a nonsense of the IRFU regulation bannings payments to players (Regulation 6).

Club competitions should be for amateur players, not professional players recruited to particular clubs by professional Branch officials

[ormond lad]

All Ireland League Final and the IRFU allow yet another total anomaly when the only full-time professional player wins the man-of -the-match award against the amateurs. No fault of Peter Dooley but this makes a nonsense of the IRFU regulation bannings payments to players (Regulation 6).

Club competitions should be for amateur players, not professional players recruited to particular clubs by professional Branch officials

No it doesnt a make a nonsense of reg 6. Club competitions should have pro players involved. We dont and shouldnt have a full tier of A level games in between the AIL and the Pro14. Pro players need to be involved at this level

[blockhead]

Tough game, with the perfect conditions you would think there would not be so many knock-ons.
Well done Lansdowne, well deserved double.
Up the Dubs!!!

[the spoofer]

All Ireland League Final and the IRFU allow yet another total anomaly when the only full-time professional player wins the man-of -the-match award against the amateurs. No fault of Peter Dooley but this makes a nonsense of the IRFU regulation bannings payments to players (Regulation 6).

Club competitions should be for amateur players, not professional players recruited to particular clubs by professional Branch officials

No it doesnt a make a nonsense of reg 6. Club competitions should have pro players involved. We dont and shouldnt have a full tier of A level games in between the AIL and the Pro14. Pro players need to be involved at this level

100% agree although Donal Lenihan going on about how Dooley probably grew up with his team mates

[lummix]

All Ireland League Final and the IRFU allow yet another total anomaly when the only full-time professional player wins the man-of -the-match award against the amateurs. No fault of Peter Dooley but this makes a nonsense of the IRFU regulation bannings payments to players (Regulation 6).

Club competitions should be for amateur players, not professional players recruited to particular clubs by professional Branch officials

What needs to happen is a new AIL with one league of 10 teams that is semi pro and includes the fringe squad players of the provinces. The rest of the teams should go back to provincial leagues with an all Ireland cup. The AIL has killed and bankrupted so many clubs in ireland and needs to be reformed.

[Armchair]

All Ireland League Final and the IRFU allow yet another total anomaly when the only full-time professional player wins the man-of -the-match award against the amateurs. No fault of Peter Dooley but this makes a nonsense of the IRFU regulation bannings payments to players (Regulation 6).

Club competitions should be for amateur players, not professional players recruited to particular clubs by professional Branch officials

You have no clue of how Reg 6 works with that statement, All AIL semi finalissts had pro players involved which is within the rules once they play the required amount of qualifying games. Most 1a teams would have players on development or academy contracts and less regularly pro contracts playing for them on a few occasions thru out the season depending on the provinces requirements if they want or feel they need extra games. Dooley was only on the bench for Leinster A last year plenty of starters played some AIL last year. Club rugby was a benefit to their progression and match fitness

So big changes being proposed for season 2019/20 what sems clear is that both 1a & 1b will be an 8 team leaguewith 1a based on the top 8 finishers of this upcoming season and 1b then being adjusted to make sure each province has at least two representative teams across both divisions so plenty of heated discussions ahead. I would as was previously mentioned abve pagree that a 10 team format works best

[Ruckedtobits]

So, after weeks of discussion within the Province and meetings with IRFU representatives David Nucifora and Scott Walker, the IRFU Director for Domestic Rugby, Leinster Club rugby rejected the current IRFU proposals to re-structure the All Ireland League to try to replace the game time lost with the demise of the B&I Cup.

The Leinster decision will be welcomed by Ulster Clubs who also feel that the Clubs competition was being manipulated to solve a professional game problem. Opinions in Munster seem more diverse.

Clubs need regular All-Ireland competition to run throughout the Season providing spectacle and opportunity for Club supporters, with derby games scheduled to avoid big TV sports competition. Club players don't want an influx of professional players just for match day, without them having any involvement in Squad training and preparation. Club players and Coaches want team members, not guest players 'doing their duty'.

Not an unreasonable outlook from amateur players who work really hard to fit their sport into a working life and achieve high standards week in week out for their Clubs and supporters.

So back to the drawing board with both sides having a clearer idea of what's wanted but maybe also, what's possible.

[mildlyinterested]

So, after weeks of discussion within the Province and meetings with IRFU representatives David Nucifora and Scott Walker, the IRFU Director for Domestic Rugby, Leinster Club rugby rejected the current IRFU proposals to re-structure the All Ireland League to try to replace the game time lost with the demise of the B&I Cup.

The Leinster decision will be welcomed by Ulster Clubs who also feel that the Clubs competition was being manipulated to solve a professional game problem. Opinions in Munster seem more diverse.

Clubs need regular All-Ireland competition to run throughout the Season providing spectacle and opportunity for Club supporters, with derby games scheduled to avoid big TV sports competition. Club players don't want an influx of professional players just for match day, without them having any involvement in Squad training and preparation. Club players and Coaches want team members, not guest players 'doing their duty'.

Not an unreasonable outlook from amateur players who work really hard to fit their sport into a working life and achieve high standards week in week out for their Clubs and supporters.

So back to the drawing board with both sides having a clearer idea of what's wanted but maybe also, what's possible.

Good to hear.

[the spoofer]

So, after weeks of discussion within the Province and meetings with IRFU representatives David Nucifora and Scott Walker, the IRFU Director for Domestic Rugby, Leinster Club rugby rejected the current IRFU proposals to re-structure the All Ireland League to try to replace the game time lost with the demise of the B&I Cup.

The Leinster decision will be welcomed by Ulster Clubs who also feel that the Clubs competition was being manipulated to solve a professional game problem. Opinions in Munster seem more diverse.

Clubs need regular All-Ireland competition to run throughout the Season providing spectacle and opportunity for Club supporters, with derby games scheduled to avoid big TV sports competition. Club players don't want an influx of professional players just for match day, without them having any involvement in Squad training and preparation. Club players and Coaches want team members, not guest players 'doing their duty'.

Not an unreasonable outlook from amateur players who work really hard to fit their sport into a working life and achieve high standards week in week out for their Clubs and supporters.

So back to the drawing board with both sides having a clearer idea of what's wanted but maybe also, what's possible.

Good to hear.

I second that. Lads training for weeks only to be dropped for a lad out of the academy.

[Armchair]

IRFU have formally dropped their proposals for the AIL which were overwhelimgly rejected by the Senior clubs in all provinces only 3/4 clubs in the whole country were in favour. The IRFU did however change the number of professional contracted players allowed play AIL from 4 to 6 per match made up of a maximum of 3 forwards & 3 backs along with no restrictions on the number of academy or development players which was always the case. This went ahead despite clubs requesting no change until their was an agreement with the IRFU re AIL revamp.

[Ruckedtobits]

So, six Contracted (i.e. Professional) players plus as many Academy players as a Club has. Thus, potentially a team of amateur players could face 9 or 10 players who are paid to play rugby. Although this will only happen for a limited number of Clubs, this is a serious distortion of a Club competition which the IRFU has tried in every way to keep as pure amateur for the past decade.

Amateur players in Clubs are already looking to be paid to play professionals. That is one challenge. The other however must be safety. We have spend 5 years trying to accomodate changes to minimise concussion and yet now the IRFU legislate to allow a strong nucleus of professionals play against amateur Club players.

This is dangerous on the safety side and lunacy on the financial side.

[Dave Cahill]

Brendan Fanning in the Indo writes that the Leinster Branch has written to the IRFU asking that this proposal be postponed

Leinster have asked the IRFU to postpone for a season the change in AIL regulations to increase the number of contracted players in match-day squads.

Last week, branch president Lorcan Balfe and honorary secretary Stuart Bailey wrote to Declan Madden, chairman of the IRFU management committee, arguing their case primarily on health and safety grounds, but also on procedure. The IRFU decided last month to widen the window for contracted players on any team from four to six; split evenly between forwards and backs.

"Our understanding is that the debate at the Union Executive centred around the number of professional players, 6/8/unlimited when the real issue that needs to be considered is the Health & Safety of Amateur players," the letter said.

"The significant increase in the number of professional players permitted under this rule change has the potential to expose our amateur players to greater risk of serious injury. This is not a decision that should be taken lightly or quickly.

"The fact that the rule change does not have the support of the AIL sub-committee and was not included on the agenda for the IRFU Executive Meeting leaves the whole process by which this decision was reached open to serious challenge. Previous changes to the league have been preceded by one year's notice, it seems prudent to allow this time to fully consider the implications of this change so we respectfully request that the decision be deferred for one season."

Declan Madden was unavailable for comment but it is understood that rather than the rule change not having the support of the AIL sub-committee, as claimed by Balfe and Bailey in their letter, in fact, it was not considered by that sub-committee at all. It remains to be seen if the IRFU executive committee, which took the decision, is prepared to revisit the issue before the competition kicks off in four weeks.

The effect of the regulation change will give the Leinster and Munster professional operations the chance to get more players into Division 1A, which this season is split evenly between Munster and Leinster, with five clubs each.

Given that the new Celtic Cup, between the provincial A sides and their equivalent in the Welsh regions, will conclude next month, there will be seven months of the season where every week roughly 10 players in each province will have no professional competition in which to play. With no teams in Division 1A, this creates a dilemma for Ulster and Connacht.

The IRFU had hoped that their proposal for a revamped AIL would solve that issue by closing the gap between the top end of the club game and the four provinces. They withdrew that proposal two weeks ago after widespread opposition from clubs around the country.

Sunday Indo Sport

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 97026.html

[Ruckedtobits]

John O'Sullivan's piece in the Thursday 13th Sept edition of the IT on the same topic gives a more balanced viewpoint. The Leinster Senior (AIL) Clubs and their 35+ Executive Committee, who represent all rugby sections & opinions of the game in Leinster, have twice overwhelmingly questioned the wisdom of the expansion of the number of Professional players now eligible to play against totally amateur teams in Divs 1A and 1B.

It is truly ironic that in the week when current and former Pro players and pundits alike are talking of the "honesty" of Dippy Ryan's revelations of how professional players can sometimes treat, or even ignore, their own safety, that the IRFU chiefs, notably David Nucifora, are trying to convince the amateur, but hugely competent, administrators of Club Rugby in Leinster to forget their concerns about the Health & Safety of their amateur players and allow them to play against teams comprising of perhaps 10 players who are paid to play rugby professionally and train full-time to do so.

Yes, it could indeed be as many as 10 professionals on a few teams within Divs 1A & 1B. The regulation change would allow SIX Contracted Players PLUS any Academy or Development Contracted players already registered to that Club. Having trawled the Provincial Rosters, we count at least 5 Clubs with 6 Contracted players and four of these have at least four Academy or Development contracted players also.

This position could well be compounded because with the demise of the B&I Cup, players outside their Provincial Senior Squad will, quite literally, have no other rugby to play and no other stage upon which to impress their Provincial Coaches.

So, step up the Club stooges who will now face a hard-core of experienced professional players who train full-time, have already logged more S&C hours and collision experience than their amateur opponents will ever accumulate. How can this not be considered a substantial increase in Player Risk

A fair contest? Hardly. A sensible contest? Definitely not, without some sort of evidence that the "risk assessment" of player's Health & Safety has been carried out on something more convincing than the back of an envelope. That is, if any such assessment has been carried out at all.

One might have expected that the Ben Robinson case forewarned the IRFU to the inherent risks to players' safety in our game. To find that they are, once again, allowing amateur players to be exposed to needless additional risk, is almost beyond belief.