Rumour Mill

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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby wixfjord » February 14th, 2019, 10:57 am

Gearzbox2 wrote:I find joe comical, seems to screw Leinster any opportunity he gets....forgot where came from pretty quick imo



Jonny tight lips wrote: the way so many of our lads suit themselves is sickening.


Lads, for jaysus sake. It’s professional rugby. Loyalty is important, but only to a point. Your career is short and getting shorter by the day.

Joe, Jack, Joey, Noel, SOB and whoever else you’re talking about have to suit themselves. 'Suiting yourself' is literally the only smart thing to do.
It might not seem that way for fans like us who live and breathe one clue, but I think we need to get a grip.

A;so if Joe Schmidt wasn't ruthlessly doing everything in his power to make it more likely that Ireland win a RWC and remain successful then he wouldn't be doing his job.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby arsebiscuits1 » February 14th, 2019, 10:58 am

People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby wixfjord » February 14th, 2019, 11:03 am

arsebiscuits1 wrote:People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

(And ruthless to the point of cut throat.)

arsebiscuits1 wrote:This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic


+1
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 14th, 2019, 11:09 am

Hope Jack Mc tells them where to go.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Laighin Break » February 14th, 2019, 11:56 am

arsebiscuits1 wrote:People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic


Good thing Joe didn't "remember when he came from" when Leinster played Clermont. No loyalty shown to his former club.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby the spoofer » February 14th, 2019, 12:11 pm

Re signing Fardy and McGrath doesn't weaken Ireland but it does Leinster. Why would the IRFU choose to do that?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 14th, 2019, 12:13 pm

the spoofer wrote:Re signing Fardy and McGrath doesn't weaken Ireland but it does Leinster. Why would the IRFU choose to do that?


why would the irfu not want leinster dominating the other provinces?
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Columbo » February 14th, 2019, 12:55 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Another rumour going around twitter is that IRFU trying to get Jack McGrath to Ulster. fwiw

I heard that he met McFarland, but of his own accord. FWIW.

He is after all a test Lion, currently not making the Ireland 23. Not surprising he’s keen to find somewhere he’s guaranteed starts, in his prime.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby mildlyinterested » February 14th, 2019, 1:10 pm

Columbo wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Another rumour going around twitter is that IRFU trying to get Jack McGrath to Ulster. fwiw

I heard that he met McFarland, but of his own accord. FWIW.

He is after all a test Lion, currently not making the Ireland 23. Not surprising he’s keen to find somewhere he’s guaranteed starts, in his prime.


and if you think the IRFU have nothing to do with that then fair play.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby riocard911 » February 14th, 2019, 1:58 pm

Personally, I think the IRFU would be absolutely mad to weaken Leinster. I'm not convinced, that they are deliberately doing that or would intend it. A strong Leinster winning trophies regularly is a prerequisite for Leinster players staying at their province, being available for the national team and also competing and honing their skills at the highest level of European club rugby. Their is absolutely no guarantee, that farming out Leinster players to Limerick, Galway and Belfast would produce a better return than that of 2017/2018. If anything the opposite is more likely to ensue. So if it's not broken, don't fix it, would be my inclination and I imagine also the IRFU's.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Oldschool » February 14th, 2019, 2:48 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Gearzbox2 wrote:I find joe comical, seems to screw Leinster any opportunity he gets....forgot where came from pretty quick imo



Jonny tight lips wrote: the way so many of our lads suit themselves is sickening.


Lads, for jaysus sake. It’s professional rugby. Loyalty is important, but only to a point. Your career is short and getting shorter by the day.

Joe, Jack, Joey, Noel, SOB and whoever else you’re talking about have to suit themselves. 'Suiting yourself' is literally the only smart thing to do.
It might not seem that way for fans like us who live and breathe one clue, but I think we need to get a grip.

A;so if Joe Schmidt wasn't ruthlessly doing everything in his power to make it more likely that Ireland win a RWC and remain successful then he wouldn't be doing his job.

Inclined to agree with you.
Plenty of people move from one employment to another after a couple of years.
Suiting themselves, no, improving themselves be it financially (usually) or career strategic only (happens but not that much) or both, yes.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Oldschool » February 14th, 2019, 2:53 pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote:People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic

I think a lot of people realize that Leinster still benefits from Joe's coaching expertise by virtue of their exposure to him during the various international windows.
I don't think this is stated often enough and it includes the players called into the extended squads to get that aforementioned exposure.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 14th, 2019, 4:52 pm

Laighin Break wrote:
arsebiscuits1 wrote:People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic


Good thing Joe didn't "remember when he came from" when Leinster played Clermont. No loyalty shown to his former club.


It’s not equivalent, he competed against his former team. Moving Leinster players to other provinces when he’s Ireland manager is completely different. If he was the Ulster manager and he competed against Leinster people wouldn’t care.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 14th, 2019, 4:59 pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote:People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic


Surly the very least he could do is recognize the rivalry with Munster and not send our most promising players there, send them down to Connacht on a loan to get them experience. Like I said in s previous post the other provinces won’t fix their academy systems if they are getting players sent to them from Leinster for free. It becomes cheaper to not try develop talent and in the longer term Ireland will not benifit from only one section of the country developing talent. One Ulstean in the 23 for the 20s and he only made the bench.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 14th, 2019, 5:12 pm

wixfjord wrote:
Gearzbox2 wrote:I find joe comical, seems to screw Leinster any opportunity he gets....forgot where came from pretty quick imo



Jonny tight lips wrote: the way so many of our lads suit themselves is sickening.


Lads, for jaysus sake. It’s professional rugby. Loyalty is important, but only to a point. Your career is short and getting shorter by the day.

Joe, Jack, Joey, Noel, SOB and whoever else you’re talking about have to suit themselves. 'Suiting yourself' is literally the only smart thing to do.
It might not seem that way for fans like us who live and breathe one clue, but I think we need to get a grip.

A;so if Joe Schmidt wasn't ruthlessly doing everything in his power to make it more likely that Ireland win a RWC and remain successful then he wouldn't be doing his job.


Joey could of gone to Ulster on a loan and Jack has been Ireland reserve loosehead for years, if he wants to get past Cian he has every opertunity to do it at Leinster. Best of Luck yo the likes of SOB, Noel and Jordi who left or are leaving in the right circumstances as in not leaving us short. Same to Joe of course but moving our most promising young outhalf on when the incumbent has only a few years left .... that’s gonna cause real harm to our ability to compete for trophies.
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby arsebiscuits1 » February 14th, 2019, 5:34 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:
arsebiscuits1 wrote:People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic


Surly the very least he could do is recognize the rivalry with Munster and not send our most promising players there, send them down to Connacht on a loan to get them experience. Like I said in s previous post the other provinces won’t fix their academy systems if they are getting players sent to them from Leinster for free. It becomes cheaper to not try develop talent and in the longer term Ireland will not benifit from only one section of the country developing talent. One Ulstean in the 23 for the 20s and he only made the bench.


Starting a statement with "surely" does not automatically make it a reasonable statement. This is a prime example of such.

Joe has a job to do. Joes job is a lot easier when the best players are getting the maximum amount of high level game time.

Joe does not care who this is with.

Fans do not like this.

Joe is a coach.

Coach =/= fan.
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby arsebiscuits1 » February 14th, 2019, 5:38 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:
wixfjord wrote:
Gearzbox2 wrote:I find joe comical, seems to screw Leinster any opportunity he gets....forgot where came from pretty quick imo



Jonny tight lips wrote: the way so many of our lads suit themselves is sickening.


Lads, for jaysus sake. It’s professional rugby. Loyalty is important, but only to a point. Your career is short and getting shorter by the day.

Joe, Jack, Joey, Noel, SOB and whoever else you’re talking about have to suit themselves. 'Suiting yourself' is literally the only smart thing to do.
It might not seem that way for fans like us who live and breathe one clue, but I think we need to get a grip.

A;so if Joe Schmidt wasn't ruthlessly doing everything in his power to make it more likely that Ireland win a RWC and remain successful then he wouldn't be doing his job.


Joey could of gone to Ulster on a loan and Jack has been Ireland reserve loosehead for years, if he wants to get past Cian he has every opertunity to do it at Leinster. Best of Luck yo the likes of SOB, Noel and Jordi who left or are leaving in the right circumstances as in not leaving us short. Same to Joe of course but moving our most promising young outhalf on when the incumbent has only a few years left .... that’s gonna cause real harm to our ability to compete for trophies.


Joey could have* gone to Ulster.

Joey also was offered the chance to go to Ulster. He turned it down.

Munster approached and he moved.

This "the right circumstances" is - if you'll excuse the pottymouth - complete and utter bollox.

A player has a career of 10 years if they're extremely lucky and every game they play could well be their last.

A player who can go and get the maximum chunk of money possible should do so. Power to them.

A player who can go and get the maximum chunk of money possible all the while maximising their international ambitions should absolutely do so.

Those are the only "right circumstances" that anyone needs.

Joey was mid contract. That is unfortunate. But he wanted to leave and he has and is maximising his earning and playing power. Good on him
He's gotten awfully fond of that brick
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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Jonny tight lips » February 14th, 2019, 5:48 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote: the way so many of our lads suit themselves is sickening.


Lads, for jaysus sake. It’s professional rugby. Loyalty is important, but only to a point. Your career is short and getting shorter by the day.

Joe, Jack, Joey, Noel, SOB and whoever else you’re talking about have to suit themselves. 'Suiting yourself' is literally the only smart thing to do.
It might not seem that way for fans like us who live and breathe one clue, but I think we need to get a grip.

A;so if Joe Schmidt wasn't ruthlessly doing everything in his power to make it more likely that Ireland win a RWC and remain successful then he wouldn't be doing his job.[/quote]

Joey could of gone to Ulster on a loan and Jack has been Ireland reserve loosehead for years, if he wants to get past Cian he has every opertunity to do it at Leinster. Best of Luck yo the likes of SOB, Noel and Jordi who left or are leaving in the right circumstances as in not leaving us short. Same to Joe of course but moving our most promising young outhalf on when the incumbent has only a few years left .... that’s gonna cause real harm to our ability to compete for trophies.[/quote]

Joey could have* gone to Ulster.

Joey also was offered the chance to go to Ulster. He turned it down.

Munster approached and he moved.

This "the right circumstances" is - if you'll excuse the pottymouth - complete and utter bollox.

A player has a career of 10 years if they're extremely lucky and every game they play could well be their last.

A player who can go and get the maximum chunk of money possible should do so. Power to them.

A player who can go and get the maximum chunk of money possible all the while maximising their international ambitions should absolutely do so.

Those are the only "right circumstances" that anyone needs.

Joey was mid contract. That is unfortunate. But he wanted to leave and he has and is maximising his earning and playing power. Good on him[/quote]

He shouldn’t of broken his contract as you said rugby is professional, so honoring a professional contract is not too much to expect. Provinces arnt supposed to compete on the value of a contract. I disagree with your definition of right circumstances and fans as willing to roll over and take it like a champ like yourself will cost this Provice trophies.
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Rumour Mill

Postby artaneboy » February 14th, 2019, 8:12 pm

Jonny tight lips wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:
arsebiscuits1 wrote:People who are bashing Joe over any misplaced concepts of loyalty need a reality check.

Joe wasn't the best coach Leinster have ever had over a desire to pay back a club that gave him a chance or any sense of loyalty...

He was the best coach Leinster have ever had because he's an excellent coach, he created the correct culture using excellent coaching methods and enabling the players at his disposal to be what he required them to be. Aside from being technically excellent and extremely dedicated.

This is the exact same thing he is doing with Ireland. The circumstances are different as the stakes are higher.

The man is a professional who has duties and responsibilities for the national team to succeed and will do so how he best sees fit.

We don't have to like it - but going down the "remember where you came from" stuff is just pathetic


Good thing Joe didn't "remember when he came from" when Leinster played Clermont. No loyalty shown to his former club.


It’s not equivalent, he competed against his former team. Moving Leinster players to other provinces when he’s Ireland manager is completely different. If he was the Ulster manager and he competed against Leinster people wouldn’t care.


This is just getting ridiculous! I’m reading it with disbelief that this type of reasoning still gets declared seriously here.

You can dislike the fact that professional rugby players, clubs and unions, will make choices that disadvantage your team- but to theorise that this constitutes disloyalty or malice (on the part of unions and management) is just incoherent on so many levels.

For a start Joe does not just owe us sweet FA- he actually owes it to Ireland to do wherever he thinks is best for the country’s team.

As to the IRFU wanting Leinster to fail? Well, you could make a reasonable case that the Union wants to even up the standard and therefore competition between provinces. To my view that’s entirely to be expected from a national union. But that’s also a clearly different thing from wishing Leinster ill.

I won’t get into the decrying of the freedom of players to optimise their playing and earning potential. The inferences of disloyal there are just beyond silly.


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Re: Rumour Mill

Postby Peg Leg » February 14th, 2019, 9:05 pm

artaneboy wrote:
Jonny tight lips wrote:
Laighin Break wrote:
Good thing Joe didn't "remember when he came from" when Leinster played Clermont. No loyalty shown to his former club.


It’s not equivalent, he competed against his former team. Moving Leinster players to other provinces when he’s Ireland manager is completely different. If he was the Ulster manager and he competed against Leinster people wouldn’t care.


This is just getting ridiculous! I’m reading it with disbelief that this type of reasoning still gets declared seriously here.

You can dislike the fact that professional rugby players, clubs and unions, will make choices that disadvantage your team- but to theorise that this constitutes disloyalty or malice (on the part of unions and management) is just incoherent on so many levels.

For a start Joe does not just owe us sweet FA- he actually owes it to Ireland to do wherever he thinks is best for the country’s team.

As to the IRFU wanting Leinster to fail? Well, you could make a reasonable case that the Union wants to even up the standard and therefore competition between provinces. To my view that’s entirely to be expected from a national union. But that’s also a clearly different thing from wishing Leinster ill.

I won’t get into the decrying of the freedom of players to optimise their playing and earning potential. The inferences of disloyal there are just beyond silly.


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Thank you artaneman. Agree with every bit of that
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