Ulster 2018-2019

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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby ChrisUppy » January 14th, 2019, 9:40 pm

Oldschool wrote:
thecomedian wrote:Definitely not having a laugh, nothing too funny about racism.
Now IF you read my post I started with IF and I mean every bit of it.
There’s no place in rugby for it.

If it was racist comments then I would believe Zebo. He could have misheard but unlikely.

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If someone accused you of committing a crime that you didn't commit.
Is it up to you to prove you didn't commit the crime or
Is it up to the accuser to prove you did commit the crime.
If or until

Not a good analogy imo. It's not to the point where anybody is being proved guilty of a crime, but rather people are establishing whether crime occurred in the first place. And additionally, it's not up to a victim to solve a crime, but rather simply report it, which judging by Racing's statement Zebo has.

Clearly SImon has heard something. Additionally, there are multiple reports of other people present having heard something. As a result people are reacting with the supposition that a crime did occur. I don't see what your issue is with that.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby thecomedian » January 14th, 2019, 9:49 pm

Look I’m not a big fan of Zebo.
But I don’t blame him at all for this.
I’m surprised at the victim blaming though, I wasn’t really expecting it.


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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby tomthefan » January 14th, 2019, 10:00 pm

I heard someone recently say that Irish compo culture is actually leading to people genuinely feeling more ill than they are.
That while they are waiting for their claim for whiplash or whatever to be finalised that they will genuinely feel unwell to a degree greater
than in countries where whiplash injuries are taken more lightly. It's like a placebo effect in reverse.
I wonder if abuse is subject to the same psychological effect.
It's become just about the worst insult going now to include a racial reference in an insult.
I can remember being called an Irish bsatard on more than one occasion in England, many years ago now.
Also in Scotland, as I recall I was called a fenian one time.
I can honestly say that it didn't add to the unpleasantness having my nationality referenced.
I'd have found it more cutting if I'd been called a fat bsatard, something I've always been a little sensitive about.
Nowadays because racial insults have been deemed to be about the worst thing going, anyone who's insulted in such a way is bound to feel
that they have been attacked in a particularly vicious manner and are more bruised as a result.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby thecomedian » January 14th, 2019, 10:13 pm

Tom, you’re probably better off without that post.


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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 14th, 2019, 10:14 pm

thecomedian wrote:Tom, you’re probably better off without that post.


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I think we'd all be better off without Tom.

Wumming about racism...my god.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby wixfjord » January 14th, 2019, 10:14 pm

That is one of the stupidest posts I've seen on here in a long while. Congrats Tom.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby tomthefan » January 14th, 2019, 10:48 pm

If I was racially insulted, perhaps even with a bad racial insult, I don't think I'd be offended as much by it as if I was called a fat bsatard or similar.
Because the first insult reflects back on the person who says it really while the latter might reference something I am self conscious about.

Edited by tomethefan.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Oldschool » January 14th, 2019, 11:15 pm

wixfjord wrote:
What a bizarre, victim blaming line of argument.

Zebo heard it, Craig Doyle heard it, other Ulster fans heard it and Racing Metro have made a statement on it.

You (and others) are letting your dislike of Zebo cloud your judgement here.

When did you hear Craig Doyle heard it etc?
You've assumed that I was aware of it.
I wasn't and I only have it third hand from you as it stands.
You can thrall through any/all posts I've ever made about Zebo and you'll find I've always been fairly positive including defending his right to leave Munster so you know where you can go with that comment.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby ronk » January 14th, 2019, 11:20 pm

Ulster fans probably had their fill of trial by media last year. Ulster rugby have made the right noises.

A few years ago there were false racial abuse allegations against Leinster players that turned out to be a misunderstanding. Skepticism is not entirely unwarranted in all cases.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby tomthefan » January 14th, 2019, 11:25 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
thecomedian wrote:Tom, you’re probably better off without that post.


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I think we'd all be better off without Tom.

Wumming about racism...my god.


Seeing as how you're so judgemental, I'm wondering why it's OK for you to have an avatar and handle that implies that an easily identifiable real-life South African person is fat.

Maybe you only mean it as a joke. It's just a joke, right?
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby rooster » January 14th, 2019, 11:49 pm

I would love to know how Craig Doyle heard it. He may have heard about it but doubt that he actually heard it.
I was in the ground for 2 hours after the match and never heard it mentioned, and I hadn't even a beer as was driving.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby rooster » January 14th, 2019, 11:55 pm

ronk wrote:Ulster fans probably had their fill of trial by media last year. Ulster rugby have made the right noises.

A few years ago there were false racial abuse allegations against Leinster players that turned out to be a misunderstanding. Skepticism is not entirely unwarranted in all cases.
We had false claims by Brew a good few years ago when he assumed we were chanting racist remarks at him when it was a "dodgy dodgy kicker" chant when the out half sliced a penalty and made only a few yards.

There was so much noise on Saturday for Zebo to hear something whoever shouted must have been pretty close to him at the pitchside.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Peg Leg » January 15th, 2019, 9:21 am

wixfjord wrote:That is one of the stupidest posts I've seen on here in a long while. Congrats Tom.
[In my best southern plantation owners accent]: Now, now son, you need to put aside my privilege for just one second. Y'see you can call me whitey and I don't mind and you folks have said plenty of mean things about me, about my big house, about my big farm, sure it's not nice but I'll get over it, so why do you get so mad over just some name callin? It's just a bit of badly timed humor, son. Now I'll find who said it and tell him off for you, but you run on now, back to work.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Peg Leg » January 15th, 2019, 9:24 am

tomthefan wrote:If I was racially insulted, perhaps even with a bad racial insult, I don't think I'd be offended as much by it as if I was called a fat bsatard or similar.
Because the first insult reflects back on the person who says it really while the latter might reference something I am self conscious about.

Edited by tomethefan.
And your feelings are affected by your privilege and white cultural history. Zebo's are affected by your privilege and his cultural history too.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Peg Leg » January 15th, 2019, 9:28 am

tomthefan wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
thecomedian wrote:Tom, you’re probably better off without that post.


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I think we'd all be better off without Tom.

Wumming about racism...my god.


Seeing as how you're so judgemental, I'm wondering why it's OK for you to have an avatar and handle that implies that an easily identifiable real-life South African person is fat.

Maybe you only mean it as a joke. It's just a joke, right?
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby ronk » January 15th, 2019, 9:38 am

Pretty hot and tempting
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Laighin Break » January 15th, 2019, 9:39 am

Peg Leg wrote:
tomthefan wrote:If I was racially insulted, perhaps even with a bad racial insult, I don't think I'd be offended as much by it as if I was called a fat bsatard or similar.
Because the first insult reflects back on the person who says it really while the latter might reference something I am self conscious about.

Edited by tomethefan.
And your feelings are affected by your privilege and white cultural history. Zebo's are affected by your privilege and his cultural history too.


I was at an Irish game years ago and someone was singing sectarian songs (he got kicked out). Now I mightn't have been personally offended by it (and I was too young to really understand it was sectarian) but I can completely understand how people who have to put up with that on a somewhat regular basis would be.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby blockhead » January 15th, 2019, 10:19 am

Peg Leg wrote:
tomthefan wrote:If I was racially insulted, perhaps even with a bad racial insult, I don't think I'd be offended as much by it as if I was called a fat bsatard or similar.
Because the first insult reflects back on the person who says it really while the latter might reference something I am self conscious about.

Edited by tomethefan.
And your feelings are affected by your privilege and white cultural history. Zebo's are affected by your privilege and his cultural history too.


Zebo's Mum is from Cork, so him and Tom share a 50% cultural history overlap, no?
I'm assuming Tom is;
from Munster, from Cork, White, Male
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby Peg Leg » January 15th, 2019, 10:34 am

blockhead wrote:
Peg Leg wrote:
tomthefan wrote:If I was racially insulted, perhaps even with a bad racial insult, I don't think I'd be offended as much by it as if I was called a fat bsatard or similar.
Because the first insult reflects back on the person who says it really while the latter might reference something I am self conscious about.

Edited by tomethefan.
And your feelings are affected by your privilege and white cultural history. Zebo's are affected by your privilege and his cultural history too.


Zebo's Mum is from Cork, so him and Tom share a 50% cultural history overlap, no?
I'm assuming Tom is;
from Munster, from Cork, White, Male
And that changes about nothing. The argument in defense of racial abuse being petty, needs to recognise that acceptance in any form in a progressive state undermines everything for those who are still subject to systemic racism in less progressive environments. The discussion is not about where we are locally, it's about how we got here and keep going until equality is a reality.
If you're part of "a culture" and you embrace it, it's not your person that you are offended for, it's the culture you are part of. Zebo is a public figure with clout, if it's happened and he is representing, then he is right to call it out.
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Re: Ulster 2018-2019

Postby blockhead » January 15th, 2019, 10:41 am

Peg Leg, maybe I got you wrong and if I did I apolagize.
But are you not arguing that Zebo has a higher right than Tom due to their respective backgrounds?
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