Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 8th, 2018, 7:54 pm

I watch a fair bit of Super Rugby and always thought Shields was alright, but I don't think I've seen him be anything other than terrible for England and Wasps. He's having a nightmare now and is putting in minimal effort. The time when he sliced the kick out was partly caused by not sprinting back to help whoever recovered the ball, so casual getting back when he was the only possible support player.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » December 8th, 2018, 8:26 pm

I really like the look of Toulouse and thought they played pretty well, but Wasps were abysmal. Hadn't a clue what they were doing even off first phase and gave a real token effort at times. Brutal.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby tingman » December 9th, 2018, 4:31 am

cormac wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:A lot of the Wasps players give the impression that they don't give a shit.


Sopoaga chief amongst them


How the name of all thats good did he get an All black cap......brutal....
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby curates_egg » December 9th, 2018, 9:27 am

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I really like the look of Toulouse and thought they played pretty well.


Yep. It's been pretty clear for a while that they are the real deal again. Those on here still talking them down are living in a bubble. They will come to the RDS in a position of strength, likely a point ahead of us.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby cormac » December 10th, 2018, 1:51 pm

Looks like the rules around home semi-finals has changed. Used to be that teams ranked 3 and 4 couldn't get a home semi-final, now it seems that it's teams ranked 7 and 8 who can no longer get a home semi-final. Basically the higher-ranked team gets home advantage now.

New rules (per EPCR site)

2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:
Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1)
Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3)
Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

The semi-final matches will be played at venues designated by EPCR, and the highest-ranked clubs from the pool stage will have home country advantage in their respective semi-final matches:

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 4 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 3 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home country advantage
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby riocard911 » December 10th, 2018, 2:14 pm

cormac wrote:Looks like the rules around home semi-finals has changed. Used to be that teams ranked 3 and 4 couldn't get a home semi-final, now it seems that it's teams ranked 7 and 8 who can no longer get a home semi-final. Basically the higher-ranked team gets home advantage now.

New rules (per EPCR site)

2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:
Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1)
Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3)
Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

The semi-final matches will be played at venues designated by EPCR, and the highest-ranked clubs from the pool stage will have home country advantage in their respective semi-final matches:

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 4 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 3 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home country advantage


If I've understood this correctly, that means in the semi the club with the higher points from the group stages will automatically have home advantage; the previous rule, where an away win in the quarter final gave a team home advantage in the semi no longer applies. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby Dexter » December 10th, 2018, 2:34 pm

riocard911 wrote:
cormac wrote:Looks like the rules around home semi-finals has changed. Used to be that teams ranked 3 and 4 couldn't get a home semi-final, now it seems that it's teams ranked 7 and 8 who can no longer get a home semi-final. Basically the higher-ranked team gets home advantage now.

New rules (per EPCR site)

2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:
Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1)
Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3)
Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

The semi-final matches will be played at venues designated by EPCR, and the highest-ranked clubs from the pool stage will have home country advantage in their respective semi-final matches:

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 4 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 3 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home country advantage


If I've understood this correctly, that means in the semi the club with the higher points from the group stages will automatically have home advantage; the previous rule, where an away win in the quarter final gave a team home advantage in the semi no longer applies. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It means teams ranked 1 and 2 have home QF and home SF if they win that, regardless of opposition.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby cormac » December 10th, 2018, 2:50 pm

riocard911 wrote:
cormac wrote:Looks like the rules around home semi-finals has changed. Used to be that teams ranked 3 and 4 couldn't get a home semi-final, now it seems that it's teams ranked 7 and 8 who can no longer get a home semi-final. Basically the higher-ranked team gets home advantage now.

New rules (per EPCR site)

2.4 The clubs ranked 1 to 4 will have home advantage for the quarter-finals as follows:
Club 1 v Club 8 (QF1)
Club 4 v Club 5 (QF2)
Club 3 v Club 6 (QF3)
Club 2 v Club 7 (QF4)

The winner of QF1 will play the winner of QF2 in one semi-final, and the winner of QF3 will play the winner of QF4 in the other semi-final as follows:

Semi-final 1: winner QF1 v winner QF2
Semi-final 2: winner QF3 v winner QF4

The semi-final matches will be played at venues designated by EPCR, and the highest-ranked clubs from the pool stage will have home country advantage in their respective semi-final matches:

(a) For Semi-final 1

If the clubs ranked 1 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country

If the clubs ranked 1 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 1 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 4 win their QFs, the club ranked 4 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage

(b) For Semi-final 2

If the clubs ranked 3 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 3 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 3 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 2 win their QFs, the club ranked 2 will have home country advantage

If the clubs ranked 6 and 7 win their QFs, the club ranked 6 will have home country advantage


If I've understood this correctly, that means in the semi the club with the higher points from the group stages will automatically have home advantage; the previous rule, where an away win in the quarter final gave a team home advantage in the semi no longer applies. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Correct. Highest ranked team from the group stages now gets home advantage in the semi-final.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby riocard911 » December 10th, 2018, 4:41 pm

Thanks, Cormac! R
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby leinsterfan100 » December 10th, 2018, 6:04 pm

Interesting little change there alright, hadn't realised it until now. Cheers for the heads up cormac.

Obviously the top priority is to get a 1/2 seeding then as before, but nice to know that all is not lost with regards to a potential home-semi if we ended up getting a 3rd/4th seeding.

It's too early in the tournament to be making any bold predictions just yet, but if things were to go well for us in our next three group games, I'd see Racing and Saracens as our biggest rivals for 1st/2nd spots. Munster could well be right up there too obviously, but at the minute its Racing and Saracens who pose the main threat it would seem...
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby desperado » December 11th, 2018, 12:43 am

Very interesting 'tweak' alright. Last time if you were seeded 1 or 2 you weren't guaranteed a home semi (which was a bit mad); but if you're ranked 3 or 4 you need either 1 or 2 to lose their QFs (unlikely). Lot's of rugby to play yet, but it would be nice for Tigers to Ulster to do some damage v Racing. Can't see Saracens slipping up.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby D4surfer » December 16th, 2018, 3:58 pm

Does anyone else think that Munster could be in trouble after yesterday’s loss to Castres? Exeter are away to Munster and home to Castres where I can see them getting 5 points. If Exeter win in Thomond then Munster will probably need a bonus point win in Gloucester who may also be still chasing qualification.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby wixfjord » December 16th, 2018, 4:21 pm

D4surfer wrote:Does anyone else think that Munster could be in trouble after yesterday’s loss to Castres? Exeter are away to Munster and home to Castres where I can see them getting 5 points. If Exeter win in Thomond then Munster will probably need a bonus point win in Gloucester who may also be still chasing qualification.


That's a good point, a TBP win and a win in Thomond keeping Munster to 1 point or less would see Exeter through I think?

A big ask, but Exeter are a good side and with a few returnees for injury should be competitive anyway.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby D4surfer » December 17th, 2018, 11:25 am

wixfjord wrote:
D4surfer wrote:Does anyone else think that Munster could be in trouble after yesterday’s loss to Castres? Exeter are away to Munster and home to Castres where I can see them getting 5 points. If Exeter win in Thomond then Munster will probably need a bonus point win in Gloucester who may also be still chasing qualification.


That's a good point, a TBP win and a win in Thomond keeping Munster to 1 point or less would see Exeter through I think?

A big ask, but Exeter are a good side and with a few returnees for injury should be competitive anyway.


Over on Munsterfans, they are debating whether they would prefer Edinburgh away or Montpellier at home in their quarterfinal. Good luck with that.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby Serb » December 17th, 2018, 12:44 pm

What they probably don’t realise is the 5th seed doesn’t get a home semi final anymore. Based on Munster’s away form this season, they’re going nowhere if they can’t get enough points for 4th.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby neill_m » December 17th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Serb wrote:What they probably don’t realise is the 5th seed doesn’t get a home semi final anymore. Based on Munster’s away form this season, they’re going nowhere if they can’t get enough points for 4th.


If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage. This is a long shot mind as the 8th seed would have to win at the top seeds in QF.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby Serb » December 17th, 2018, 3:14 pm

neill_m wrote:If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage. This is a long shot mind as the 8th seed would have to win at the top seeds in QF.


True, not impossible, but very unlikely. Would require someone like Glasgow or Ulster to be beating Racing / Saracens at home.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby D4surfer » December 17th, 2018, 3:48 pm

Serb wrote:
neill_m wrote:If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage. This is a long shot mind as the 8th seed would have to win at the top seeds in QF.


True, not impossible, but very unlikely. Would require someone like Glasgow or Ulster to be beating Racing / Saracens at home.


Munster need to beat Gloucester away which is not a foregone conclusion because Exeter will definitely beat Castres in Sandy Park. That sets up a very lively winner takes all match in Thomond, that Exeter are easily capable of winning.
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby johng » December 17th, 2018, 5:40 pm

Serb wrote:
neill_m wrote:If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage. This is a long shot mind as the 8th seed would have to win at the top seeds in QF.


True, not impossible, but very unlikely. Would require someone like Glasgow or Ulster to be beating Racing / Saracens at home.


Glasgow are away to Series in the last round but Ulster have racing in ravenhill next round.

Long shot. Especially without Henderson but you just never know....
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Re: Draw for H Cup / Champions Cup 2019

Postby riocard911 » December 17th, 2018, 7:45 pm

johng wrote:
Serb wrote:
neill_m wrote:If the clubs ranked 8 and 5 win their QFs, the club ranked 5 will have home country advantage. This is a long shot mind as the 8th seed would have to win at the top seeds in QF.


True, not impossible, but very unlikely. Would require someone like Glasgow or Ulster to be beating Racing / Saracens at home.


Glasgow are away to Series in the last round but Ulster have racing in ravenhill next round.

Long shot. Especially without Henderson but you just never know....


And there was me thinking, "Bummer with Hendo - with him out Ulster are less likely to beat Racing" - meaning it would have negative consequences for Leinster. But the way the draw is fixed and things are panning out, we might be better letting Racing take second place behind Sarries, 'cos then they'd have to travel to Alliance Park for the semi, whereas if we came third on points after the group stages, we'd be playing the fourth placed team - or their conquerors should they lose the quarter final - at home. Have I got that right or perhaps missed something?
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