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Safety in Rugby Remarks Moved Here (Fairly) by Moderator

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 3:29 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:Leinster have had remarkable stability at the fullback position for a long time, but Rob Kearney is nearing the end of his leinster career and Isa is gone.

With that in mind, who is Leinster's long term replacement at fullback? And who will be his competition and cover at the position.

Current Options, age as of start of next season:
St Michael's - Cian Kelleher(25) - primarily a winger for Connacht, but came through Leinster at fullback.
Blackrock - Hugo Keenan(23) - had 3 starts at 14 this season before injury distruption.
St Andrew's - Jordan Larmour(22) - looks the most likely player to be the long term replacement for Rob.
St Michael's - Jack Kelly(21) - Leinster A captain, made his debut this season. In final year of academy.
Clongowes (was St Michael's Jnr school) - Michael Silvester(21) - In 1st year of academy, hard to know how he will progress.


Feeder School Production Line. For better or worse.
Last edited by backrower8 on January 11th, 2019, 11:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby mildlyinterested » January 10th, 2019, 3:31 pm

backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:Leinster have had remarkable stability at the fullback position for a long time, but Rob Kearney is nearing the end of his leinster career and Isa is gone.

With that in mind, who is Leinster's long term replacement at fullback? And who will be his competition and cover at the position.

Current Options, age as of start of next season:
St Michael's - Cian Kelleher(25) - primarily a winger for Connacht, but came through Leinster at fullback.
Blackrock - Hugo Keenan(23) - had 3 starts at 14 this season before injury distruption.
St Andrew's - Jordan Larmour(22) - looks the most likely player to be the long term replacement for Rob.
St Michael's - Jack Kelly(21) - Leinster A captain, made his debut this season. In final year of academy.
Clongowes (was St Michael's Jnr school) - Michael Silvester(21) - In 1st year of academy, hard to know how he will progress.


Feeder School Production Line. For better or worse.


Whats your point? That schools rugby produces rugby players? Why I never knew.. also not exactly sure i'd call St. Andrews a feeder school for rugby.

If Conor Nash had chosen rugby over AFL then it would look different.
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 4:20 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:
Whats your point? That schools rugby produces rugby players? Why I never knew.. also not exactly sure i'd call St. Andrews a feeder school for rugby.


Relax. Since you ask, I am doing two things.

You normally include where players originate from yourself. You didn't this time, so I am adding that in here.

I am also highlighting that all 5 are from rugby schools, on whose production capacity the Leinster Rugby squad and pro-model is built and on which we are overreliant and susceptible to moderate probability-high risk extreme shocks (of a magnitude that would be greater to Leinster than no-deal Brexit would be to Rep. of Ireland).

St Andrew's don't neatly fit the bill of a traditional rugby production line but they have won the SCT 4 times and will have more players in Saturday's matchday 23 than any of Blackrock, Belvedere, Terenure, Castlenock, Clongowes or St Mary's (the only schools that have won more SCT trophies than they have) and any other school, or club, bar you know who. Yeah maybe Porter and Larmour are blips, but their rugby programme must be doing something right to produce more than 1 pro which all bar Michael's, Rock, Clongowes and Gonzaga have struggled to do in the last 5+ years.

Gonzaga is another school that has gone from lightweight to a genuine rugby feeder school through pros like Kev McLaughlin, Dom Ryan, John Cooney, Matt Healy & Bary Daly in recent years. More pros probably than Belvedere, Terenure, Castlenock, and just less than St Mary's, have ever produced.

The feeder rugby schools to me is one big eco-system of those schools that play in the Leinster Schools Cup competitions. If one of these schools catches a 'cold' then Leinster Pro-rugby will get pneumonia because Leinster Rugby doesn't govern/control any of them. Having all 5 front-runners to succeed Rob from the same narrow and independent eco-system is another reminder of how dependent we are on the health of that system and its comfort with safety in rugby .

No, I don't have solutions but here are some suggestions:

- THE MAIN SUGGESTION: Make the game safer (don't wait for World Rugby & (LB)IRFU, be the change agents we need). Agitate - which is what I do here and have done elsewhere.

- THE TEMPORARY & INADEQUATE ONE: Spread the risk by increasing the output of pro players from a wider range of rugby hotbeds:
Belvedere, Terenure, Castlenock and St Mary's
The next layer of rugby schools & the rugby clubs
Work hard to avoid a major dip in the output of the big 3 producers - rugby safety is the key here
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby mildlyinterested » January 10th, 2019, 4:22 pm

I shouldn't have asked.
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 4:24 pm

mildlyinterested wrote:I shouldn't have asked.


:lol:
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby paddyor » January 10th, 2019, 4:55 pm

If you're that interested in those topics go and do something. Stop sh!t posting every thread please.
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 5:01 pm

paddyor wrote:If you're that interested in those topics go and do something. Stop sh!t posting every thread please.


As I said, I have and I am. Apologies if your attention span or scrolling finger is overly challenged.
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby the spoofer » January 10th, 2019, 5:06 pm

backrower8 wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
Whats your point? That schools rugby produces rugby players? Why I never knew.. also not exactly sure i'd call St. Andrews a feeder school for rugby.


Relax. Since you ask, I am doing two things.

You normally include where players originate from yourself. You didn't this time, so I am adding that in here.

I am also highlighting that all 5 are from rugby schools, on whose production capacity the Leinster Rugby squad and pro-model is built and on which we are overreliant and susceptible to moderate probability-high risk extreme shocks (of a magnitude that would be greater to Leinster than no-deal Brexit would be to Rep. of Ireland).

St Andrew's don't neatly fit the bill of a traditional rugby production line but they have won the SCT 4 times and will have more players in Saturday's matchday 23 than any of Blackrock, Belvedere, Terenure, Castlenock, Clongowes or St Mary's (the only schools that have won more SCT trophies than they have) and any other school, or club, bar you know who. Yeah maybe Porter and Larmour are blips, but their rugby programme must be doing something right to produce more than 1 pro which all bar Michael's, Rock, Clongowes and Gonzaga have struggled to do in the last 5+ years.

Gonzaga is another school that has gone from lightweight to a genuine rugby feeder school through pros like Kev McLaughlin, Dom Ryan, John Cooney, Matt Healy & Bary Daly in recent years. More pros probably than Belvedere, Terenure, Castlenock, and just less than St Mary's, have ever produced.

The feeder rugby schools to me is one big eco-system of those schools that play in the Leinster Schools Cup competitions. If one of these schools catches a 'cold' then Leinster Pro-rugby will get pneumonia because Leinster Rugby doesn't govern/control any of them. Having all 5 front-runners to succeed Rob from the same narrow and independent eco-system is another reminder of how dependent we are on the health of that system and its comfort with safety in rugby .

No, I don't have solutions but here are some suggestions:

- THE MAIN SUGGESTION: Make the game safer (don't wait for World Rugby & (LB)IRFU, be the change agents we need). Agitate - which is what I do here and have done elsewhere.

- THE TEMPORARY & INADEQUATE ONE: Spread the risk by increasing the output of pro players from a wider range of rugby hotbeds:
Belvedere, Terenure, Castlenock and St Mary's
The next layer of rugby schools & the rugby clubs
Work hard to avoid a major dip in the output of the big 3 producers - rugby safety is the key here


My question for you is how do you know the game is unsafe? Pro rugby is a different game where players get paid and know the risks. Youth rugby and senior rugby is safe. There are risks but they are known and acceptable to most.
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » January 10th, 2019, 5:21 pm

Because there are too many swords?
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby tomthefan » January 10th, 2019, 6:08 pm

Most of those schools have been playing rugby for over a hundred years through
ww1, troubles, civil way, the depression, the emergency etc. I don't think Leinster has to worry
about them going away.
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 6:52 pm

Eh Limecat, I didn't set up this thread or provide its title as is currently stated on the index. Are you going to rectify that?
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 6:54 pm

tomthefan wrote:Most of those schools have been playing rugby for over a hundred years through
ww1, troubles, civil way, the depression, the emergency etc. I don't think Leinster has to worry
about them going away.


As you know, things have changed in the last 10 years let alone 100. Both in rugby and in the claims courts.
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby tomthefan » January 10th, 2019, 7:10 pm

backrower8 wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Most of those schools have been playing rugby for over a hundred years through
ww1, troubles, civil way, the depression, the emergency etc. I don't think Leinster has to worry
about them going away.


As you know, things have changed in the last 10 years let alone 100. Both in rugby and in the claims courts.


Yes but are the schools especially vulnerable to those changes where clubs etc aren't?
I'd be surprised if they were really.
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Re: Leinster's Long Term Fullback Post-RK

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 7:19 pm

the spoofer wrote:My question for you is how do you know the game is unsafe? Pro rugby is a different game where players get paid and know the risks. Youth rugby and senior rugby is safe. There are risks but they are known and acceptable to most.


Silly, silly post in the light of the well publicised 4 deaths in France alone in last 8 months and the high profile death of Ben Robinson, a 14 yr old Irish boy, 8 years ago this month.

Open your eyes.

There have been at least 15 deaths (only 1 involving a pro player) in the last 8 years internationally. Most all of these deaths were as a result of blows to the head.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-15199636

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... h-15648498

It has never been 100% safe and never will be. What we expected and accepted of the sport 20-30 years ago is not acceptable to people now as most of us are much more aware of the risks from concussion/brain injury and also the much higher rate and type of injury seen nowadays. I say that despite having had reconstructive shoulder surgery and 2 total knock-outs as well as other injuries requiring surgery myself from the ages of 15-25 in the 80s and 90s.

Our awareness and risk management has improved but it is certainly still not safe enough nor is it moving quickly enough relative to what we know and what is happening in the pro and amateur sectors.
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 7:29 pm

tomthefan wrote:
backrower8 wrote:
tomthefan wrote:Most of those schools have been playing rugby for over a hundred years through
ww1, troubles, civil way, the depression, the emergency etc. I don't think Leinster has to worry
about them going away.


As you know, things have changed in the last 10 years let alone 100. Both in rugby and in the claims courts.


Yes but are the schools especially vulnerable to those changes where clubs etc aren't?
I'd be surprised if they were really.


Clubs and schools are ALL affected by how people respond to the perceived risks of the sport and all will see falls in numbers playing at youth and senior level if there is another death given what we now know and increasingly are not prepared to accept.

The only difference of real note between schools and clubs, is that clubs exist to facilitate and encourage rugby and they are members of the IRFU. Schools don't and are not.

Schools are part of a community beyond the reach of the IRFU and they will all move to protect themselves legally, reputationally and existentially, if any one of their pupils suffers a significant brain injury and/or death, by de-escalating their rugby programmes significantly until and unless the game is made safer. This would harm Leinster Rugby very significantly, but would be the necessary price to be paid.
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby backrower8 » January 10th, 2019, 8:15 pm

backrower8 wrote:Eh Limecat, I didn't set up this thread or provide its title as is currently stated on the index. Are you going to rectify that?


Limecat - The title of this thread being attributed to me is a misrepresentation. It is unprofessional of you to have done so and to let it stand. I would accept you either deleting this thread or changing the title, if you won't cite yourself as the originator of the thread, to read "Rugby safety".
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby johng » January 10th, 2019, 8:19 pm

Doesn't professional imply that money changed hands?
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby RoboProp » January 10th, 2019, 9:10 pm

johng wrote:Doesn't professional imply that money changed hands?


Poor auld Limey doing this for nothing more than the love of Leinster, and yer man here going off the deep end. The internet be weird yo.
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby johng » January 10th, 2019, 9:59 pm

I'm on it a little under 10 and he once threatened to buy me a pint.
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Re: Where did your favourite player go to school?

Postby The Doc » January 11th, 2019, 10:20 am

johng wrote:I'm on it a little under 10 and he once threatened to buy me a pint.


f%~k me - I just checked - I'm on nearly 13 years.
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