RWC 2019

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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 2nd, 2019, 6:37 pm

As somebody who always belived that 6N is Ireland's natural hunting ground, I've also come to the (my) conclusion that the RWC requires only about 18 months focus i.e. Summer Tour, Autumn Internationals and World Cup preparation.

Key learnings for me:

* No coach can "play" players into form ;
* Always pick players in form;
* Don't bring anybody to RWC who is not fit to play;
* Treat every opponent as equal, unless proven otherwise;
* The players available to you should determine your Game Plan & Tactics.

I reject the widespread criticism of Schmidt but acknowledge that his management approach may not suit a Tournament with a knock-out format. From my perspective, his mistakes were not selecting Toner and Marmion (Klyne & McGrath were not adequate replacements) and bringing Henshaw who was never close to his potential.

I'll never know if Murray, Carbery or Sexton were fully fit. none of them appeared to be capable of playing to their best form - except for 20 minutes against Scotland.

Kearney is our best full-back, but a very limited counter-attacker.
Stockdale's form fell off a cliff;
We must use Ringrose to attack at every opportunity;
Earls is a world class finisher, but don't pick him if we can't use him in that role;
No other outhalf is close to Sexton at present, but he is now an injury liability;
Murray's form as an attacking scrum-half has been terrible. Marmion immediately;
Healy still the best but Kilcoyne worth 40 mins every match - sometimes as starter;
Cronin a great impact forward but throwing & scrum work rule him out as a starter;
Furlong has lost form and cannot trade on memory. More carries & offloads needed;
We missed Leavy & SO'B more than anyone is prepared to admit;
PO'M is an excellent line-out operator & little else;
Ruddock is an excellent all-round No 6 and forward leader. Give him the role;
CJ. Is a hard-carrying forward that makes you wish for a Vermuelon;
JVdF will work for ever, without hurting a single opponent - forward or back.

International rugby is a blood sport determined by collisions or outrageous skill. A team like Wales can excel by superior fitness dotted with occasional outrageous talent. For Ireland to succeed in such competitions we must tactically outplay our opponents on at least three occasions by an unexpected Gameplan or Tactics and by consistent excellence in skills.

The big 4/5. (NZ,SA Fr, Eng & Aus) will always beat us unless we surprise them - again and again. We'll never catch them unprepared for a RWC, unlike a Summer Tour, so we must prepare like Japan and have a menu of tactics to beat the different opponents.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Pilotman123 » November 2nd, 2019, 6:39 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:As somebody who always belived that 6N is Ireland's natural hunting ground, I've also come to the (my) conclusion that the RWC requires only about 18 months focus i.e. Summer Tour, Autumn Internationals and World Cup preparation.

Key learnings for me:

* No coach can "play" players into form ;
* Always pick players in form;
* Don't bring anybody to RWC who is not fit to play;
* Treat every opponent as equal, unless proven otherwise;
* The players available to you should determine your Game Plan & Tactics.

I reject the widespread criticism of Schmidt but acknowledge that his management approach may not suit a Tournament with a knock-out format. From my perspective, his mistakes were not selecting Toner and Marmion (Klyne & McGrath were not adequate replacements) and bringing Henshaw who was never close to his potential.

I'll never know if Murray, Carbery or Sexton were fully fit. none of them appeared to be capable of playing to their best form - except for 20 minutes against Scotland.

Kearney is our best full-back, but a very limited counter-attacker.
Stockdale's form fell off a cliff;
We must use Ringrose to attack at every opportunity;
Earls is a world class finisher, but don't pick him if we can't use him in that role;
No other outhalf is close to Sexton at present, but he is now an injury liability;
Murray's form as an attacking scrum-half has been terrible. Marmion immediately;
Healy still the best but Kilcoyne worth 40 mins every match - sometimes as starter;
Cronin a great impact forward but throwing & scrum work rule him out as a starter;
Furlong has lost form and cannot trade on memory. More carries & offloads needed;
We missed Leavy & SO'B more than anyone is prepared to admit;
PO'M is an excellent line-out operator & little else;
Ruddock is an excellent all-round No 6 and forward leader. Give him the role;
CJ. Is a hard-carrying forward that makes you wish for a Vermuelon;
JVdF will work for ever, without hurting a single opponent - forward or back.

International rugby is a blood sport determined by collisions or outrageous skill. A team like Wales can excel by superior fitness dotted with occasional outrageous talent. For Ireland to succeed in such competitions we must tactically outplay our opponents on at least three occasions by an unexpected Gameplan or Tactics and by consistent excellence in skills.

The big 4/5. (NZ,SA Fr, Eng & Aus) will always beat us unless we surprise them - again and again. We'll never catch them unprepared for a RWC, unlike a Summer Tour, so we must prepare like Japan and have a menu of tactics to beat the different opponents.

POM is also excellent at the breakdown , he’s very good at poaching and a good leader, POM is better than Ruddock and a better leader, he captained the Lions, it’s a bit silly to be comparing Ruddock to POM, I get it you’re a biased Leinster fan. We wouldn’t of beaten NZ in 2018 if POM wasn’t on the pitch
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby neiliog93 » November 2nd, 2019, 6:53 pm

POM isn't a good leader, he occasionally grabs opponents by the scruff of the neck and makes the famous angry face, so people assume he must have leadership skills. He doesn't. He was a poor captain of the Lions in the first test, in a game they lost comprehensively, before being dropped from the match-day squad entirely, from where the Lions went on to win one and draw one test match.

POM's stats as a back row are awful. Consistently a very low tackle count (often still with some missed), and few if any impact tackles. Low carry count for low amount of metres. His breakdown work is reasonably good, he sometimes gets turnovers, but is still nowhere near world class. He is good in the line out, but his relative lack of height (6'3") impacts his ceiling and makes him quite ineffective against world class line outs like South Africa. He also consistently gives away too many stupid penalties. Lastly, and most importantly, he has also been off form for over a year and is now 30 years old.

All in all, he doesn't deserve to be there any more, at least until when (or if) his form improves.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby blockhead » November 2nd, 2019, 7:18 pm

Pilotman123 wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:As somebody who always belived that 6N is Ireland's natural hunting ground, I've also come to the (my) conclusion that the RWC requires only about 18 months focus i.e. Summer Tour, Autumn Internationals and World Cup preparation.

Key learnings for me:

* No coach can "play" players into form ;
* Always pick players in form;
* Don't bring anybody to RWC who is not fit to play;
* Treat every opponent as equal, unless proven otherwise;
* The players available to you should determine your Game Plan & Tactics.

I reject the widespread criticism of Schmidt but acknowledge that his management approach may not suit a Tournament with a knock-out format. From my perspective, his mistakes were not selecting Toner and Marmion (Klyne & McGrath were not adequate replacements) and bringing Henshaw who was never close to his potential.

I'll never know if Murray, Carbery or Sexton were fully fit. none of them appeared to be capable of playing to their best form - except for 20 minutes against Scotland.

Kearney is our best full-back, but a very limited counter-attacker.
Stockdale's form fell off a cliff;
We must use Ringrose to attack at every opportunity;
Earls is a world class finisher, but don't pick him if we can't use him in that role;
No other outhalf is close to Sexton at present, but he is now an injury liability;
Murray's form as an attacking scrum-half has been terrible. Marmion immediately;
Healy still the best but Kilcoyne worth 40 mins every match - sometimes as starter;
Cronin a great impact forward but throwing & scrum work rule him out as a starter;
Furlong has lost form and cannot trade on memory. More carries & offloads needed;
We missed Leavy & SO'B more than anyone is prepared to admit;
PO'M is an excellent line-out operator & little else;
Ruddock is an excellent all-round No 6 and forward leader. Give him the role;
CJ. Is a hard-carrying forward that makes you wish for a Vermuelon;
JVdF will work for ever, without hurting a single opponent - forward or back.

International rugby is a blood sport determined by collisions or outrageous skill. A team like Wales can excel by superior fitness dotted with occasional outrageous talent. For Ireland to succeed in such competitions we must tactically outplay our opponents on at least three occasions by an unexpected Gameplan or Tactics and by consistent excellence in skills.

The big 4/5. (NZ,SA Fr, Eng & Aus) will always beat us unless we surprise them - again and again. We'll never catch them unprepared for a RWC, unlike a Summer Tour, so we must prepare like Japan and have a menu of tactics to beat the different opponents.

POM is also excellent at the breakdown , he’s very good at poaching and a good leader, POM is better than Ruddock and a better leader, he captained the Lions, it’s a bit silly to be comparing Ruddock to POM, I get it you’re a biased Leinster fan. We wouldn’t of beaten NZ in 2018 if POM wasn’t on the pitch


Flushed out! Well done RTBs
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And gambling's for fools,
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Pilotman123 » November 2nd, 2019, 7:19 pm

blockhead wrote:
Pilotman123 wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:As somebody who always belived that 6N is Ireland's natural hunting ground, I've also come to the (my) conclusion that the RWC requires only about 18 months focus i.e. Summer Tour, Autumn Internationals and World Cup preparation.

Key learnings for me:

* No coach can "play" players into form ;
* Always pick players in form;
* Don't bring anybody to RWC who is not fit to play;
* Treat every opponent as equal, unless proven otherwise;
* The players available to you should determine your Game Plan & Tactics.

I reject the widespread criticism of Schmidt but acknowledge that his management approach may not suit a Tournament with a knock-out format. From my perspective, his mistakes were not selecting Toner and Marmion (Klyne & McGrath were not adequate replacements) and bringing Henshaw who was never close to his potential.

I'll never know if Murray, Carbery or Sexton were fully fit. none of them appeared to be capable of playing to their best form - except for 20 minutes against Scotland.

Kearney is our best full-back, but a very limited counter-attacker.
Stockdale's form fell off a cliff;
We must use Ringrose to attack at every opportunity;
Earls is a world class finisher, but don't pick him if we can't use him in that role;
No other outhalf is close to Sexton at present, but he is now an injury liability;
Murray's form as an attacking scrum-half has been terrible. Marmion immediately;
Healy still the best but Kilcoyne worth 40 mins every match - sometimes as starter;
Cronin a great impact forward but throwing & scrum work rule him out as a starter;
Furlong has lost form and cannot trade on memory. More carries & offloads needed;
We missed Leavy & SO'B more than anyone is prepared to admit;
PO'M is an excellent line-out operator & little else;
Ruddock is an excellent all-round No 6 and forward leader. Give him the role;
CJ. Is a hard-carrying forward that makes you wish for a Vermuelon;
JVdF will work for ever, without hurting a single opponent - forward or back.

International rugby is a blood sport determined by collisions or outrageous skill. A team like Wales can excel by superior fitness dotted with occasional outrageous talent. For Ireland to succeed in such competitions we must tactically outplay our opponents on at least three occasions by an unexpected Gameplan or Tactics and by consistent excellence in skills.

The big 4/5. (NZ,SA Fr, Eng & Aus) will always beat us unless we surprise them - again and again. We'll never catch them unprepared for a RWC, unlike a Summer Tour, so we must prepare like Japan and have a menu of tactics to beat the different opponents.

POM is also excellent at the breakdown , he’s very good at poaching and a good leader, POM is better than Ruddock and a better leader, he captained the Lions, it’s a bit silly to be comparing Ruddock to POM, I get it you’re a biased Leinster fan. We wouldn’t of beaten NZ in 2018 if POM wasn’t on the pitch


Flushed out! Well done RTBs

What does RTBs mean?
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschoolsocks » November 2nd, 2019, 7:19 pm

Cork it is
I just wanted to see Gordon D'Arcy get a 'back, sack and crack wax'
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby blockhead » November 2nd, 2019, 7:27 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Cork it is

Would explain the grammar.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Pilotman123 » November 2nd, 2019, 7:28 pm

Oldschoolsocks wrote:Cork it is

No one in D4 uses the word RTBs haha
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby blockhead » November 2nd, 2019, 8:07 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFWEw7PlQ44

Post match from rugbypass.
Lots of swearing so .... ye be warned!
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » November 3rd, 2019, 3:39 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:As somebody who always belived that 6N is Ireland's natural hunting ground, I've also come to the (my) conclusion that the RWC requires only about 18 months focus i.e. Summer Tour, Autumn Internationals and World Cup preparation.

Key learnings for me:

* No coach can "play" players into form ;
* Always pick players in form;
* Don't bring anybody to RWC who is not fit to play;
* Treat every opponent as equal, unless proven otherwise;
* The players available to you should determine your Game Plan & Tactics.

I reject the widespread criticism of Schmidt but acknowledge that his management approach may not suit a Tournament with a knock-out format. From my perspective, his mistakes were not selecting Toner and Marmion (Klyne & McGrath were not adequate replacements) and bringing Henshaw who was never close to his potential.

I'll never know if Murray, Carbery or Sexton were fully fit. none of them appeared to be capable of playing to their best form - except for 20 minutes against Scotland.

Kearney is our best full-back, but a very limited counter-attacker.
Stockdale's form fell off a cliff;
We must use Ringrose to attack at every opportunity;
Earls is a world class finisher, but don't pick him if we can't use him in that role;
No other outhalf is close to Sexton at present, but he is now an injury liability;
Murray's form as an attacking scrum-half has been terrible. Marmion immediately;
Healy still the best but Kilcoyne worth 40 mins every match - sometimes as starter;
Cronin a great impact forward but throwing & scrum work rule him out as a starter;
Furlong has lost form and cannot trade on memory. More carries & offloads needed;
We missed Leavy & SO'B more than anyone is prepared to admit;
PO'M is an excellent line-out operator & little else;
Ruddock is an excellent all-round No 6 and forward leader. Give him the role;
CJ. Is a hard-carrying forward that makes you wish for a Vermuelon;
JVdF will work for ever, without hurting a single opponent - forward or back.

International rugby is a blood sport determined by collisions or outrageous skill. A team like Wales can excel by superior fitness dotted with occasional outrageous talent. For Ireland to succeed in such competitions we must tactically outplay our opponents on at least three occasions by an unexpected Gameplan or Tactics and by consistent excellence in skills.

The big 4/5. (NZ,SA Fr, Eng & Aus) will always beat us unless we surprise them - again and again. We'll never catch them unprepared for a RWC, unlike a Summer Tour, so we must prepare like Japan and have a menu of tactics to beat the different opponents.


But we’ve already beaten France and Oz in the RWC?


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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Ruckedtobits » November 3rd, 2019, 4:59 pm

And we surprised them both, which proves it's possible.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby neiliog93 » November 3rd, 2019, 5:02 pm

Ruckedtobits wrote:And we surprised them both, which proves it's possible.


We were favourites to beat France in 2015, and ended up winning comfortably despite a raft of injuries. Wasn't really a surprise.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » November 4th, 2019, 12:59 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:And we surprised them both, which proves it's possible.


I dont think either was surprised by what we brought to those matches


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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Oldschool » November 4th, 2019, 6:26 pm

A curiosity question.
How good a job do punters think Eddie Jones did coaching England to a RWC final.
Personally, it's going to be interesting to see haw many of his RWC squad he retains for the 6Ns.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby Twist » November 5th, 2019, 2:23 pm

I don't think he did that well.

He's got the biggest/second biggest (depending on how you measure) selection of players to choose from
He inherited a good squad with a massive point to prove
His key players were all healthy for the tournament - and he didn't look at all great during the period without them in 2017-18
His key players were all in fantastic form and accustomed to playing together, thanks to Salarycens illegal activities
His path to the semis was eased considerably by Lavanini's red, the cancelled game and Australia's naivety
The whole world knew what SA were going to do in the final, and he seemed to have no plan for it
He took too long to bring on Kruis

Against that, he got a brilliant performance out of England in the semi. One for the ages.
He went on that 18 game winning streak when he took over first

So yeah he did well, but no more than that. With their resources, England should average a World Cup final roughly every three or four tournaments. A far less talented England team came far closer to winning in 2007.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby leinsterforever » November 5th, 2019, 2:43 pm

Oldschool wrote:A curiosity question.
How good a job do punters think Eddie Jones did coaching England to a RWC final.
Personally, it's going to be interesting to see haw many of his RWC squad he retains for the 6Ns.


Excellent. Lancaster - knocked out in pool stages in 2015. Johnson - knocked out in quarters in 2011. Ashton - made final in 2007, but seems to have been like France in 2011 with players revolting and taking control.

They play amazing rugby too.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby jimbobjoe » November 5th, 2019, 2:47 pm

Mostly agree with Twist - To add to that, Curry and Underhill fell into his lap at the right time as they had poor backrows before that. Robshaw the best but not dynamic enough and underpowered. Haskell, Hughes and the beardy kiwi never convinced at international level.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby LeRouxIsPHat » November 5th, 2019, 3:15 pm

I think that's harsh. He didn't have to play Underhill and Curry together, made brave decisions around Ford/Farrell, brought in two new coaches when things needed to change, and tactically England were fine in the final, it was the execution that was the problem.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby fourthirtythree » November 5th, 2019, 3:21 pm

I was pretty surprised that the Torygraph gave Elliot Daly 7/10 for the tournament and the Grauniad gave him 6/10 for the final - had an Irish full back over the past few years (bar Henshaw obviously, because he did) delivered such an inept performance the papers would have been calling for his and the coaches head.

Jones was up and dwon. Rode the dead cat bounce well, fell off the horse but did really well to get back up again. Key was, I thought, certain players delivering. Right at the end those players seemed to be completely out of puff and you have to ask did he, actually, overplay the Vunipolas etc?

There's no magic balance and we got it badly wrong, but he doesn't seem to have got it right either. But he got to a final so that is successful.
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Re: RWC 2019

Postby jimbobjoe » November 5th, 2019, 3:24 pm

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I think that's harsh. He didn't have to play Underhill and Curry together, made brave decisions around Ford/Farrell, brought in two new coaches when things needed to change, and tactically England were fine in the final, it was the execution that was the problem.


England's back row production has been shockingly poor since the mid-00s, looks like they've finally got a trio to build something around.
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